I Know it is Tradition but it is Still Annoying

[HomerJSimpson]

Personally I wouldn't want my golf club going too far down the casual path. We don't allow denim or any description or trainers and I like that. I guess it boild down to horses for courses but I like my club feel like a golf club and not a glorified pub. Yes we have sky sports etc but there is a different air of decorum in a clubhouse than a pub and I think a degree of that comes from not relaxing the rules too much

 

[TheJezster]

Dont worry about it then. humerous other occasions for you ;-)

 

[sev112]

Now i like a bit of "traditionalism" (actually i dont but it spoils the post) and i also like a bit of "Modernism" - but which do i like the best ... only one way to find out .... FIGHT

Forget Old Farts and Whippersnappers, what we need is a Tradiotionalists vs Modernists match !! Or maybe a return match - one at each kind of club. The Modernists would have to agree to abide by the "rules and traditions" of teh posh club, and the traditionalists would have to agree to relax their dress code a bit and engage with some of the lower classes ...

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Cargo trousers (smart) and cargo shorts are fine

No sir, no they are not, not in my book, not on the golf course.

 

[TheJezster]

No sir, no they are not, not in my book, not on the golf course.

See, this is where it's a good debate. Not everyone has the same opinion. Why not in your opinion though? They are just as smart as slacks and more comfortable and definitely more useful. It's what I wear, and I look smart on course.

To be clear I'm not talking about the baggy camouflage combats here, I'd agree with you on that front. I have a beige and khaki pair.

 

[USER1999]

Combats, smart? Jeans, smart? I think not.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Combats, smart? Jeans, smart? I think not.

I agree. Where do you draw the line. One persons interpreation is a world away from anothers as to what consitutes smart or otherwise as this thread has shown.

 

[Iaing]

So chaps, am I correct in assuming that if the Captain wanted to tee off first but was wearing jeans, everyone here would be in agreement that he should be told to get stuffed?

 

[chrisd]

What a lot of people forget is that members see the rules are there to be broken and the bounderies are always pushed. If you say cargo's are ok but some makes are not, then there will be people who will always overstep the mark and wear the wrong ones. If you say jeans are ok so long as they are smart, someone will have ones that are frayed or holed and will argue that they are the hight of fashion and cost £150.

We had our presentation night last week and it's generally recognised that smart casual for men with a tie is the minimum but there were one or two there tieless and a couple with shirts out and no jackets- ok by me, you may say, but the smart/ casual with ties is what the members want at that event but, as I say, the bounderies are always pushed. In fact it can work from the reverse, a player in cargo trousers with a fashionable shirt, not tucked in and no socks, can look much smarter than the guy that gets his cream chino's out of his locker that havn't seen Persil since 2007.

My experience is that when making rules you always assume that the worse case scenario will happen and legislate against that, because, for sure, some will always fall below that standard. I know a couple of very nice private clubs near by where you will see people in the bar will cargo's halfway down their shins, flip flops and collarless shirt and there clubs attitude is that the members are drinking more and everybody is friendly and happy - they dress more traditionally on the course and if they are happy, who are we to judge? Would I join there? Yes I might - the courses are good but all the time that my place has a stricter dress code I am still happy as I am never going to overstep the mark so I wouldn't leave my place just for a more casually dressed drink. Our dress code is pretty traditional anyway but I have said in committee that some of the code is not going to attract younger people to evening functions and the fact that some events get cancelled suggest that I am right.


Things do change but change can be painfully slow. My final point is though - if the changes become a new tradition, I will still support that tradition.



Chris

 

[SocketRocket]

We have a spikes bar where you can be a little more relaxed in your dress and a Lounge bar where golfing wear (not golf shoes) is OK in the day but smart casual is required after 6:30 (Trousers and shirt, tie and jacket optional).

Everone seems happy with this.

 

[Smiffy]

Over the past two years, I have been lucky enough to have been invited to a couple of charity days at Bearwood Lakes (thanks Paul!). Dress code for the evenings celebrations has been "smart casual". It was nice not to have to wear a collar and tie, a smart pair of trousers/chinos and an open necked, collared shirt were order of the day. Some guys still took it upon themselves to come dressed up in suits and ties etc. but it was their choice. The ladies still looked on it as an opportunity to dress up. Nice.
When we go to play at Cooden each year on our forum meet, the dress code for the evening meal is collar and tie. We know that before we go, so we wear it. It is their "tradition"...we want to play their course, we want to enjoy their hospitality, we abide by their "rules". If you don't like it, don't attend. Simples.
So I am prepared to "give and take" to a certain extent.
But I cannot abide seeing jeans worn on a golf course. Or cargo shorts. Or T-shirts. Or shirts un-tucked. I hate all of these things with a passion when seen in the vicinity of a golf course.
And if I were a member of a club that decided to relax it's dress code and start allowing these things to go on, I'd leave. Again, simples.
I'm not a snob. Far from it. When I am away from the course I live, eat and breathe in jeans and t shirts.
But don't take away the very fabric of the game, the things that attracted me to golf in the first place.

 

[pokerjoke]

Over the past two years, I have been lucky enough to have been invited to a couple of charity days at Bearwood Lakes (thanks Paul!). Dress code for the evenings celebrations has been "smart casual". It was nice not to have to wear a collar and tie, a smart pair of trousers/chinos and an open necked, collared shirt were order of the day. Some guys still took it upon themselves to come dressed up in suits and ties etc. but it was their choice. The ladies still looked on it as an opportunity to dress up. Nice.
When we go to play at Cooden each year on our forum meet, the dress code for the evening meal is collar and tie. We know that before we go, so we wear it. It is their "tradition"...we want to play their course, we want to enjoy their hospitality, we abide by their "rules". If you don't like it, don't attend. Simples.
So I am prepared to "give and take" to a certain extent.
But I cannot abide seeing jeans worn on a golf course. Or cargo shorts. Or T-shirts. Or shirts un-tucked. I hate all of these things with a passion when seen in the vicinity of a golf course.
And if I were a member of a club that decided to relax it's dress code and start allowing these things to go on, I'd leave. Again, simples.
I'm not a snob. Far from it. When I am away from the course I live, eat and breathe in jeans and t shirts.
But don't take away the very fabric of the game, the things that attracted me to golf in the first place.

Agreed.
Im all for traditions.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Well this is turning into a mega thread. Been meaning to contribute for ages but the discussion kept moving on and it was fun reading the other posts which covered just about every angle.

On the original issue of Captains having privileges and perks, I'm not against it and think it is reasonable acknowledgement of the work they do and a nice little expression of respect from the other members. It's mostly pretty harmless. The trouble was in the 2 examples originally cited - of a Captain jumping to the head of a long queue and a pushing a 4-ball front of a 2-ball - it just seemed high handed and a bit of an abuse of the privilege. The Captain shouldn't be using his privileges to the detriment of other members' enjoyment.

On the wider subject of dress codes, traditional clubs etc I think at the heart of it is that we all have different views and expectations. I don't like seeing jeans and tee shirts on the golf course but I don't want to have to put on a jacket and tie just to get a drink in the bar after a certain time. Clubs are changing and there are generally clubs to suit each person's taste. That's good. There was a time when golf was very exclusive and snobby and I don't think most people want to see a return to those days. On the other hand there are some traditional aspects of the game such as a certain standard of dress and behaviour that help make it what it is. That doesn't necessarily make it exclusve - you can buy a pair of Strombergs for less than a pair of Levis and manners cost nothing.

 

[bobmac]

I'm not a snob. Far from it. When I am away from the course I live, eat and breathe in jeans and t shirts.

I always said it was wrong to let the "ordinary" folk play golf

 

[chrisd]

I always said it was wrong to let the "ordinary" folk play golf

Such wise words Bob, such wise words!


Chris

 

[bobmac]

Such wise words Bob, such wise words!


Chris

Especially for someone of my tender years

 

[stevie_r]

I don't like jeans on the course and certainly wouldn't wear them to play in myself. TBH I don't think they would be particularly practical anyway - especially given the weather we've had up here this year. If a course is wettish (like both of mine) I'll wear walking trousers, berghaus, craghopper or the like. Allow plenty of movement and if you get a quick shower they can dry in no time - unlike denim. During the daytime though I don't see any problem with jeans in the clubhouse.

 

[chrisd]

Well this is turning into a mega thread. Been meaning to contribute for ages but the discussion kept moving on and it was fun reading the other posts which covered just about every angle.

On the original issue of Captains having privileges and perks, I'm not against it and think it is reasonable acknowledgement of the work they do and a nice little expression of respect from the other members. It's mostly pretty harmless. The trouble was in the 2 examples originally cited - of a Captain jumping to the head of a long queue and a pushing a 4-ball front of a 2-ball - it just seemed high handed and a bit of an abuse of the privilege. The Captain shouldn't be using his privileges to the detriment of other members' enjoyment.

On the wider subject of dress codes, traditional clubs etc I think at the heart of it is that we all have different views and expectations. I don't like seeing jeans and tee shirts on the golf course but I don't want to have to put on a jacket and tie just to get a drink in the bar after a certain time. Clubs are changing and there are generally clubs to suit each person's taste. That's good. There was a time when golf was very exclusive and snobby and I don't think most people want to see a return to those days. On the other hand there are some traditional aspects of the game such as a certain standard of dress and behaviour that help make it what it is. That doesn't necessarily make it exclusve - you can buy a pair of Strombergs for less than a pair of Levis and manners cost nothing.

It seems to me Mashie that the differing opinion only come about from the guys who join a club that have particular rules or traditions that they were probably made well aware of when they applied to join but wern't willing to abide by them after membership had been granted, or for some reason didn't think that they applied to them. It's either that, or they are in clubs where those rules don't exist so they proudly announce that if they did exist they would ignore them - never going to be called on to prove that are they?

I would just wonder what would happen in reality if, say, Thecraw was on the tee and the Captain wandered along and very nicely said that the rules had been changed recently and he had priority on the tee and wished to exercise that right. I lay a pound to a penny he would meekly stand aside and all the bluff and bluster would quickly be forgotten! I also wonder if he refused, and he was disciplined by the club, and he was expelled, what would be the case if he then joined a club with this rule? I know that no club would go this far but it's ealy at work and little activity and it sets the mind going - yes, even at my age!


Chris

 

[bluewolf]

Is there anyone about who feels like setting up a poll? Traditional on and off the course, traditional on, but casual off, casual on and off the course. It might be interesting to see the results.
Also, back OT, if the captain has the right at the first tee, and decided politely to take that right, I wouldn't have a problem. If he was a dick about it, then he would get a mouthful, in front of the usual group of captains cronies. I would still let them play though. I like the fact that traditions still exist.. In my childhood sport, rugby league, there was a tradition that you never questioned the referee.. Ever.. You also had to refer to him as Mr at all times. It's still fantastic to watch rugby (both codes), witness the controlled aggression, and never once see disrespect on the field. They do this because it was ingrained in them as kids. Compare that with football.. A sport in which no character defect is frowned upon. Look how prevalent cheating has become just because it wasn't frowned upon when it first started happening. Some traditions are necessary and good for the game, and if you think a certain one isn't, then get it changed democratically.

 

[chrisd]

Is there anyone about who feels like setting up a poll? Traditional on and off the course, traditional on, but casual off, casual on and off the course. It might be interesting to see the results.
Also, back OT, if the captain has the right at the first tee, and decided politely to take that right, I wouldn't have a problem. If he was a dick about it, then he would get a mouthful, in front of the usual group of captains cronies. I would still let them play though. I like the fact that traditions still exist.. In my childhood sport, rugby league, there was a tradition that you never questioned the referee.. Ever.. You also had to refer to him as Mr at all times. It's still fantastic to watch rugby (both codes), witness the controlled aggression, and never once see disrespect on the field. They do this because it was ingrained in them as kids. Compare that with football.. A sport in which no character defect is frowned upon. Look how prevalent cheating has become just because it wasn't frowned upon when it first started happening. Some traditions are necessary and good for the game, and if you think a certain one isn't, then get it changed democratically.

The only trouble with the poll is that we would vote for what we want at our clubs, rather than what I think the nub of this argument is - are you prepared to adhere to the rules and traditions of your club as they are now? and, do you think that these traditions apply to everyone but you?



Chris