I don't expect anyone to answer this...

You mentioned dave peltz and in that book he does explain how to do it. You need a dead hand swing with the power of the shot being controlled only by the length of the swing. No body coil just a turn of the legs and shoulders in sequence and take the 'hit' out of impact. You need fast & accurate feedback on the length of each shot and hold your finish for 8 seconds to ingrain the feel of the swing (don't think of anything else).

I have been using these methods for around a month maybe 2 hours practice per day 4-5 days a week and the results are starting to really show. Got myself a range finder the other day so time to really dial in the yardages. I set out markers every 5 yards (towels, cones, baskets) with yellow and orange balls each yard in between so I can see how far each shot goes. Nothing quite like the feeling of holding that pose on the course knowing you hit the right wedge the right distance as the ball hunts the pin.
 
There is only one way to develop "feel" and that is by repetition.

Think about it like judging the distance to throw a ball to someone. I doubt you were ever taught how to throw a ball different distances, you just learnt it by throwing the ball over and over, probably pretty badly at first, till you eventually got the hang of it. Now when you throw you dont have to think about how hard to throw it and at what trajectory, you can just look at the target and throw it there.

Its exactly the same thing in golf except for the fact that the golf swing/putting stroke is a lot more complex than throwing a ball, so it just takes a lot more repetitions.
 
The only true way to develop feel and see how the ball reacts is to get out there and practice. There are a lot of ways of playing these short shots from the Pelz clockface drill to the Linear method I'm using (as featured in GM last month). As long as you are making good contact and not hitting it fat and thin you can soon pace out distances and use different clubs to get there. Open the face up and throw it high, or take a straighter face and run it in lower. Ball poistion and clubface through impact will vary the spin and loft.

I have to say Timmy that I think on this occasion you were a tad out of order with Imurg who is a good single figure golfer and a nice chap. He wasn't far wrong and I do think the only real way to learn these shots is to find a grassy practice area and play them or get on the course and hit two or three balls around the greens from different lies.

There are lots of short game clips on you tube that I'm sure will help or try the Pelz book and see if that method works best for you. No two days are ever the same even for pro golfers in terms of feel and so you need to get a short game method that works and then adjust the feel for each day and the conditions.
 
I have to say Timmy that I think on this occasion you were a tad out of order with Imurg who is a good single figure golfer and a nice chap. He wasn't far wrong and I do think the only real way to learn these shots is to find a grassy practice area and play them or get on the course and hit two or three balls around the greens from different lies.
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I agree, and I apologise to Imurg for my rash response.

From what I've learned about golf over my extensive 13 months is that the short pitches (<80 yards) are so difficult to judge, which is why the experienced player would aim to leave a full approach shot. It seems that there is a huge gap between knowing the theory and putting it in to practice (not just for us mortals, but for the tour pros too).

I guess the issue is one of calibration. Putting aim is digital (on or off). As is the golf swing, largely (are the muscles doing the right thing or not). Power (speed control) is analogue.
 
From what I've learned about golf over my extensive 13 months is that the short pitches (<80 yards) are so difficult to judge, which is why the experienced player would aim to leave a full approach shot. It seems that there is a huge gap between knowing the theory and putting it in to practice (not just for us mortals, but for the tour pros too).

I guess the issue is one of calibration. Putting aim is digital (on or off). As is the golf swing, largely (are the muscles doing the right thing or not). Power (speed control) is analogue.
Click to expand...

I am quite suprised by this Tim. You have demonstrated a huge ammount of effort and dedication to improving your long game but are ready to just dismiss the idea that half and three quarter wedge shots are possible to get right with the same level of practice. Yes it's nice to have a full shot but you can't always leave yourself one. It is entirely possible to get a good feel for distance control by using the Dave Peltz methods I mentioned above.

You said no one would be able to answer this but I think I had a good go at it or rather Dave Peltz answered it fully in his book but you have totally ignored this.
 
Tim, All I can say is ,It comes from experience,The more you play the game,the better feel for it you get,Dont think you can learn this,you have to have some natural ability as well,as i say,the short game is all about feel,just get out and play !!!..
 
Go out with a bag of balls and hit every club in your bag to 10 yard intervals until full swing.
 
Thanks for all the excellent replies.

A quick question for you guys who are good at this: is it a visual thing for you, personally? Do you judge the power by actually seeing the target?

Or, do you measure the distance (say, 17 yards plus an extra roll for the downhill, so 20 yards), and then know how hard you must hit to achieve a 20 yards shot?

(In other words, if someone said to you: play a 20 yard chip shot, could you do it without seeing the hole, or is this completely meaningless unless you have a target?)
 
From what I've learned about golf over my extensive 13 months is that the short pitches (<80 yards) are so difficult to judge, which is why the experienced player would aim to leave a full approach shot. It seems that there is a huge gap between knowing the theory and putting it in to practice (not just for us mortals, but for the tour pros too).

I guess the issue is one of calibration. Putting aim is digital (on or off). As is the golf swing, largely (are the muscles doing the right thing or not). Power (speed control) is analogue.
Click to expand...

I am quite suprised by this Tim. You have demonstrated a huge ammount of effort and dedication to improving your long game but are ready to just dismiss the idea that half and three quarter wedge shots are possible to get right with the same level of practice. Yes it's nice to have a full shot but you can't always leave yourself one. It is entirely possible to get a good feel for distance control by using the Dave Peltz methods I mentioned above.

You said no one would be able to answer this but I think I had a good go at it or rather Dave Peltz answered it fully in his book but you have totally ignored this.
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I followed the Pelz method as well and through a lot of practice now consider myself better than most from 75 to 110 yds. Granted, there's a lot of work to do but with the time you appear to have on your hands Tim there's no reason you can't do it. Maybe you just don't find it interesting compared to driving it miles, I learned to love the wedge game and have improved tremendously as a result
 
Get a distance for a general idea. Then look at the target and naturally take a few practice swings to gauge distance and feel then go for it.
 
A quick question for you guys who are good at this: is it a visual thing for you, personally? Do you judge the power by actually seeing the target?
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I personally like to try and visualise every shot that I play before I hit it. Apparantly Jack Nicklaus could visualise like seeing a video in colour!

Longer chips, I do also like to know the distance


Chris
 
Thanks for all the excellent replies.

A quick question for you guys who are good at this: is it a visual thing for you, personally? Do you judge the power by actually seeing the target?

Or, do you measure the distance (say, 17 yards plus an extra roll for the downhill, so 20 yards), and then know how hard you must hit to achieve a 20 yards shot?

(In other words, if someone said to you: play a 20 yard chip shot, could you do it without seeing the hole, or is this completely meaningless unless you have a target?)
Click to expand...

Outside 30 yds I have a swing and a club I know I can hit certain distances, for instance I could hit 80ish yds with my eyes closed. Inside 30yds it's all about seeing the target and trusting my judgement. I never think about the length of my swing inside 30yds or how hard to hit it, I just look at the target decide on where I need to pitch it and trust the fact I've done it a million times before.

You'll remember last week I said I struggle when I start thinking about my shots around the green, well it's because I try to hit it the right distance rather than relying on my experience and natural judgement. If I can stop my mind getting involved I'm a much better player around the green
 
I'm working pretty hard on this part of my game at the moment (and it seems to be paying off a little)

I'm going out on my course when it's quite and hitting loads of different shots into greens to learn how the ball reacts with different clubs, swing lengths and swing styles.

The 3.4 and 1/2 swing technique works well for me from 25-100 yards distance but from 25 yards in I'm better using a putting type stroke with a wedge even down to an 8 iron to chip the ball and let it run out to the pin.

As said above you develop a 'feel' for it. You just get a sense when looking at your ball and the distance to the pin that hitting this club at about half swing should get the ball in the pin area. Sometimes you are right and sometimes not - it's all about the learning though and the more you practice the better you get.
 
A good tip that I read for shorter pitches and all chips is to picture the shot in full, ball flight, landing and run out with any break that there might be.

Then decide where the ball needs to land to achieve that picture and focus on hitting your shot to that landing point rather than the hole. This stops you subconciously adjusting your shot to hit the ball directly at the hole.
 
Had a bad chipping session the other night and was definitely focussing too much on the technique and not the feel. Went away and did some bunker work and came back, put two balls down, aimed at two different flags and just hit the shot. Executed both pretty well and definitely within acceptable margins
 
I was watching Phil Mick's Short Game DVD earlier and he was explaining that to change the distance of the shot he keeps the power the same and simply adjust the length of the backswing. It's similar to the Dave Pelz clockface. In theory it sounds excellent, but in practice it's getting that power constant which appears to be the difficulty (in my mind).

Personally I really don't like the idea of "touch" and "feel" - it seems very woolly and unrepeatable in a scientific sense.

Would it be accurate to say that power is controlled by tempo and length of backswing. Keep the tempo the same, then vary the backswing = more or less clubhead speed. So then the problem becomes one of, how to keep a constant tempo (metronome style)?
 
By this thread is timmy smash factor admitting short game approach shots are harder and more complex than just smashing a ball down a range........,,...,,,.......
 
How do you groove a "feel" for distance control?
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I believe there are some things which cannot be mathematically worked OUT and worked ON with a great deal of success.
We all know the clockface thing for hitting wedges but for chipping and putting it's going to be hard to decide on a 1/4 chip or 1/2 putt or whatever.

If you think about it, it's possible to "chip" a ball over 100 yards easy. It's also possible to chip it 20cm or less. That's a hell of a difference.

I reckon feel for distance is one of the most instinctive parts of game. Even a relatively poor player (like me) gets "into" the zone for feeling how hard to hit chips and putts, that's why slow or fast greens are hard to cope with because years of honing that feel are temporarily messed up.

Practise, practise. Maybe develop a "science" for a few shots (like enough swing to get to the far side of the green) or a short enough swing with a wedge just to lift the ball 2 foot or something, but from then on it's experience i.m.o. :)
 
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