How would you have reacted? 2

[chrisd]

And followed with masses of crap about how the starter was holier than the pope and absolutely faultless in the whole process

Cheers HJS, I was struggling to find a different way to say the same thing, judging by some of his posts, one day, he's going to make a terrific starter, especially after reading the crap on post 45!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Cheers HJS, I was struggling to find a different way to say the same thing, judging by some of his posts, one day, he's going to make a terrific starter, especially after reading the crap on post 45!!

Now that truly was a peach of a post

A real 'winner' when many if not most on here are members of golf clubs and play in club comps.

 

[Slab]

I think this thread has been really useful in highlighting several interesting side issues

• It’s a rule of golf that the club committee decide when a tied match is to be decided (note that the committee decision will not automatically apply to other clubs or comps)
• I don’t believe that assumed/perceived/made up etiquette should replace this Rule of Golf
• I do believe that any affective committee should (& probably do) make provision for a certain level of tee priority in their comp rules for deciding a tied game
• I don’t believe that the level of priority needs to be “immediate” (as suggested) in order for the game to be concluded in a timely manner
• I do believe that the scenario in general is a good learning point for me because in this example if any one of those involved from the Starter, OP, PP or opponents actually knew what the committee decision was for tee priority when deciding a tied game, then the whole situation would not have arisen in the first place

I still believe if your PP takes off in the huff they should be slapped with a wet fish!

 

[chrisd]

I think this thread has been really useful in highlighting several interesting side issues

• It’s a rule of golf that the club committee decide when a tied match is to be decided (note that the committee decision will not automatically apply to other clubs or comps)
• I don’t believe that assumed/perceived/made up etiquette should replace this Rule of Golf
• I do believe that any affective committee should (& probably do) make provision for a certain level of tee priority in their comp rules for deciding a tied game
• I don’t believe that the level of priority needs to be “immediate” (as suggested) in order for the game to be concluded in a timely manner
• I do believe that the scenario in general is a good learning point for me because in this example if any one of those involved from the Starter, OP, PP or opponents actually knew what the committee decision was for tee priority when deciding a tied game, then the whole situation would not have arisen in the first place

I still believe if your PP takes off in the huff they should be slapped with a wet fish!

All of which could easily be dealt with using a liberal helping of common sense!without any need for a committee to get involved at all

 

[Slab]

All of which could easily be dealt with using a liberal helping of common sense!without any need for a committee to get involved at all

Agree to an extent. But what if one mans common sense actually contravenes a comp rule? i.e what time to commence play, what hole to play etc etc

And the Rules state that the committee are already involved (albeit this should ideally be when circulating the comp rules and not when groups are collecting on the 1st tee)

 

[chrisd]

Agree to an extent. But what if one mans common sense actually contravenes a comp rule? i.e what time to commence play, what hole to play etc etc

And the Rules state that the committee are already involved (albeit this should ideally be when circulating the comp rules and not when groups are collecting on the 1st tee)

The rules are generally paramount I do however think that common sense should always prevail. I have been in comps at our place, we have 7 minute spacing for 3 balls, if the 2 groups in front lose balls and search for just 3 minutes per group then it's likely that the timing will be slightly delayed for the next groups, it happens, and normally everyone pretty much catches up by the end.

When there is a starter and a group comes round that need to play extra holes, which would be pretty rare, then, as has been said, they would not often play many more holes and would soon clear out of the way, so COMMON SENSE should prevail and the jobsworth in this incident should look at what a pillock he was.

If, however, a group went off without checking that (where clubs have a 2 tee start) they wouldn't bump into a tee closure on the turn then they pretty much get what they deserve, but if there's a starter that shouldn't happen

 

[Slab]

The rules are generally paramount I do however think that common sense should always prevail. I have been in comps at our place, we have 7 minute spacing for 3 balls, if the 2 groups in front lose balls and search for just 3 minutes per group then it's likely that the timing will be slightly delayed for the next groups, it happens, and normally everyone pretty much catches up by the end.

When there is a starter and a group comes round that need to play extra holes, which would be pretty rare, then, as has been said, they would not often play many more holes and would soon clear out of the way, so COMMON SENSE should prevail and the jobsworth in this incident should look at what a pillock he was.

If, however, a group went off without checking that (where clubs have a 2 tee start) they wouldn't bump into a tee closure on the turn then they pretty much get what they deserve, but if there's a starter that shouldn't happen

I get that I really do... but if your common sense said in the event of a tie match then to decide the outcome replay from the 1st but the competition rule says in the event of a tie match then to decide the outcome replay the 18th then a common sense approach is inherently flawed.

It's not common sense, (or the right thing/etiquette as suggested) its simply making it up as you go along

From the info we have it is a lack of knowledge of a competition rule that caused the OP scenario not a lack of common sense

And I'll say again the tie match should have some priority... but its not the players common sense decision to make, it is the committees

Common sense might solve the issue for a one off situation but what happens to the next group that need an extra hole or two to decide a tie result. How can we be sure their common sense also arrives at the right outcome?

 

[nemicu]

I think this thread has been really useful in highlighting several interesting side issues

• It’s a rule of golf that the club committee decide when a tied match is to be decided (note that the committee decision will not automatically apply to other clubs or comps)
• I don’t believe that assumed/perceived/made up etiquette should replace this Rule of Golf
• I do believe that any affective committee should (& probably do) make provision for a certain level of tee priority in their comp rules for deciding a tied game
• I don’t believe that the level of priority needs to be “immediate” (as suggested) in order for the game to be concluded in a timely manner
• I do believe that the scenario in general is a good learning point for me because in this example if any one of those involved from the Starter, OP, PP or opponents actually knew what the committee decision was for tee priority when deciding a tied game, then the whole situation would not have arisen in the first place

I still believe if your PP takes off in the huff they should be slapped with a wet fish!

Well done Slab. You seem to be the only one else in this thread with an ounce of common sense. The starter is only an instrument of club policy - and even if we don't agree with it at times, we must agree with club policy or at least respect it's decision.
No, I'm not a starter - never have been and never will be - but if I'm told there isn't a spot, then there isn't a spot.
As for "holier than thou", the only ones that seem to display these qualities all too often are.....competition golfers - who, to their discredit, are arrogant, rude, bullish, clueless, slow and cause chaos to an otherwise straightforward round of golf.
The starter probably did the rest of the course (who outnumber one group incidentally) a favour.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well done Slab. You seem to be the only one else in this thread with an ounce of common sense. The starter is only an instrument of club policy - and even if we don't agree with it at times, we must agree with club policy or at least respect it's decision.
No, I'm not a starter - never have been and never will be - but if I'm told there isn't a spot, then there isn't a spot.
As for "holier than thou", the only ones that seem to display these qualities all too often are.....competition golfers - who, to their discredit, are arrogant, rude, bullish, clueless, slow and cause chaos to an otherwise straightforward round of golf.
The starter probably did the rest of the course (who outnumber one group incidentally) a favour.

Nothing beats a generic rude statement that encompasses one judgement onto everyone !

Thankfully our committee and members have the common sense to understand that if a matchplay needs to go to extra holes then they filter in on the relevant hole - as with everyone else the starter on this occasion could have and prob should have displayed the same such common sense especially when the groups on the tee had no issue at all.

 

[nemicu]

Nothing hurts like the truth either LP. And the truth is the starter is there to protect the course and the club policy - not the to uphold the progress of matches which according to the rules of golf have completed a stipulated round.

 

[Fyldewhite]

The ONLY problem here is the starter, or his inflexible approach to the situation. If he hadn't been there, which lets face it is the case at 90% of clubs then there wouldn't have been a problem. The match would have been concluded, the groups behind would have been delayed slightly but in all probability would have soon caught up and the PP would not have thrown the toys out (another issue really). I'm firmly in the common sense camp on this one.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nothing hurts like the truth either LP. And the truth is the starter is there to protect the course and the club policy - not the to uphold the progress of matches which according to the rules of golf have completed a stipulated round.

Nothing is hurting at all and there has certainly been no truth spouted - you have made a generic highly judgemental statement about people who play comp golf - 99% of people on here play comp golf so your insults ( they are insults after all ) are aimed at everyone of those comp golfers.

The starter I'm also very sure is human and has common sense and is able to distinguish when sometimes that common sense can be used to ensure a matchplay game is completed especially when all parties concerned are happy with the suggestions.

 

[Slab]

Well done Slab. You seem to be the only one else in this thread with an ounce of common sense. The starter is only an instrument of club policy - and even if we don't agree with it at times, we must agree with club policy or at least respect it's decision.
No, I'm not a starter - never have been and never will be - but if I'm told there isn't a spot, then there isn't a spot.
As for "holier than thou", the only ones that seem to display these qualities all too often are.....competition golfers - who, to their discredit, are arrogant, rude, bullish, clueless, slow and cause chaos to an otherwise straightforward round of golf.
The starter probably did the rest of the course (who outnumber one group incidentally) a favour.

I know we're basically saying the same thing here about the topic (& it was your initial post that made me look into this in more detail which I really appreciate) but I'll view your comment on comp golfers separately and say we don't agree on that one... I have seen the competition golfer you describe but thankfully they're vastly outnumbered

 

[nemicu]

Nothing is hurting at all and there has certainly been no truth spouted - you have made a generic highly judgemental statement about people who play comp golf - 99% of people on here play comp golf so your insults ( they are insults after all ) are aimed at everyone of those comp golfers.

The starter I'm also very sure is human and has common sense and is able to distinguish when sometimes that common sense can be used to ensure a matchplay game is completed especially when all parties concerned are happy with the suggestions.

Since you like to perpetuate an argument...
maybe the starter also has the common sense to know when another group moving onto the tee are going to create a problem. Maybe he knows the OP and his PP have had form before. Maybe the course was completely chocker. We'll never know. But since the only one who made a decision based on the evidence is the starter, maybe we should respect it rather than dismissing it out of hand like we all know better.....a bit like the aforementioned stereotypical competition golfer.

 

[JohnnyLarge]

How many on this thread have actually acted as a starter at a club? Not a one-off competition - actually paid to do the job.
I have! Paid employment as a starter/course marshal/ticket checker at a Municipal operated by a private company with a resident golf club on site.
The mix of people visiting the site can range from club members, societies, pay and play, club matches, ladies, juniors, seniors and any combination of all the above. Tee times are 8 minutes apart.
I can assure you that the tee can become a very busy place to be and the starter needs to be on his game. The pressure to get people off on time is great. At times you can suffer abuse and people insisting on trying to tell you the job.

The only person I was accountable to was the Golf Manager responsible for the whole of the business. His view is that I am responsible for the management of the tee, no interference from the Pro, Committee of the resident club or anyone else.
People with pre-booked times, whatever their status, have priority. We do not do back-nine starts at any time.

In the case above, had there been a gap to fit them in, they would have been fitted in. If not, sorry.
Anyone insisting they have the right to 'push in' certainly would not be allowed to tee off unless there was space for them to proceed without delaying play.
Anyone displaying aggressive or overly insistent behaviour would not be playing on that day.

I'm with nemicu on most of his points. Not sure of how 'proper' members clubs would be but that's how it works when I was on.
I suppose every club does things slightly differently.

John

 

[Slab]

........ The starter I'm also very sure is human and has common sense and is able to distinguish when sometimes that common sense can be used to ensure a matchplay game is completed especially when all parties concerned are happy with the suggestions.

Phil you surely don't mean that if all parties present are happy to waive a competition rule that you're ok with that!

 

[nemicu]

I know we're basically saying the same thing here about the topic (& it was your initial post that made me look into this in more detail which I really appreciate) but I'll view your comment on comp golfers separately and say we don't agree on that one... I have seen the competition golfer you describe but thankfully they're vastly outnumbered

Thanks. I've used the term at it most extreme to highlight there is two sides to every coin. Thankfully, quite a few golfers (the majority hopefully) have the courtesy to avoid these situations, but alas I've seen this sort of behaviour all too often to dismiss it as a non-issue. Either way, it's certainly not problem created by any starter I've ever met.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Since you like to perpetuate an argument...
maybe the starter also has the common sense to know when another group moving onto the tee are going to create a problem. Maybe he knows the OP and his PP have had form before. Maybe the course was completely chocker. We'll never know. But since the only one who made a decision based on the evidence is the starter, maybe we should respect it rather than dismissing it out of hand like we all know better.....a bit like the aforementioned stereotypical competition golfer.

Maybe he doesn't and the starter is being a robot jobs worth and not taking into account the needs of the people that pay his wages - the golfers of the club.

Again all the people on the tee had no issue - the groups waiting had no issue at all - all the information has been given to you without the need to create scenarios and it appears that the starter failed to show the common sense needed and would expect to see the starter no longer there if it happened at the clubs I play.

You certainly don't mind making insulting judgements do you.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil you surely don't mean that if all parties present are happy to waive a competition rule that you're ok with that!

Which competition rule has been waived ?

 

[Slab]

Which competition rule has been waived ?

Exactly, you have no idea what the correct action is that needs to be taken to decide the outcome of this tie yet are happy to go with mob rule!

Ok mob rule isn't the right description but fun to type