How much?

[Wolf]

I wouldn't entirely agree with that. The membership revenue is a pretty much a fixed amount each year (give or take a few changes in membership) and the club will base it's annual budgets around that. If you get 20 new members a year at £1500 joining fee then the club have an additional £30k that they can invest in improvements. My club has a joining fee, we have very few people leave each year because we all feel we have invested in the future of the club.

Smart business management would be able to allocate and forecast revenue based on EBITDA and P&L analysis accurately from membership revenue each month and highlight cost effective areas and where money can be allocated for improvements or cost saving. Any joining fee revenue therefore could then be put aside purely as profit, yes the management could allocate these funds back into club accounts for improvements in other areas but smart business management would have had that covered off already using the known revenue, year on year growth and expenditure. So therefore should able to sit pretty with the additional 30k as pure profit. Which that in itself if charging a joining fee is good business especially for those who could get to pocket it.

I'm not trying to say your wrong and I'm right. There is no right or wrong in this debate because there reasons for both side of the debate. In your instance at your club you are quite clearly right as its a model that works and people are happy to accept and I've no issue with that whatsoever. My own personal choice is I would not personally pay a joining fee regardless of the club.

 

[robinthehood]

Where were you looking? Which side of Reading are you based?

Not in reading anymore. I've been looking in Herts/beds

Ideally within 30 to 40 mins of Letchworth

 

[Deleted member 18588]

In this debate it is often assumed by some that clubs have a limitless requirement for new members.

However, at my Club, a long established Members' Club but certainly not a top 100 contender by any means, we cannot just accept many more. All new Full Members would, understandably, expect to be able to play on a Saturday which generally is Competition day.

As our Winter comps attract entries of 120 and those in the rest of the year 150 to 160 how do we accomodate many more members?

And, yes, we still charge a modest joining fee.

 

[hines57]

Depending on which side of Reading you are - have you looked at Badgemore Park? Great membership and a club that is investing in making both the on and off course facilities better each year (I am a member, so would be biased!!). They may also have some membership options to look at.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Smart business management would be able to allocate and forecast revenue based on EBITDA and P&L analysis accurately from membership revenue each month and highlight cost effective areas and where money can be allocated for improvements or cost saving. Any joining fee revenue therefore could then be put aside purely as profit, yes the management could allocate these funds back into club accounts for improvements in other areas but smart business management would have had that covered off already using the known revenue, year on year growth and expenditure. So therefore should able to sit pretty with the additional 30k as pure profit. Which that in itself if charging a joining fee is good business especially for those who could get to pocket it.

I'm not trying to say your wrong and I'm right. There is no right or wrong in this debate because there reasons for both side of the debate. In your instance at your club you are quite clearly right as its a model that works and people are happy to accept and I've no issue with that whatsoever. My own personal choice is I would not personally pay a joining fee regardless of the club.

Agreed but the problem for golf clubs is that they very rarely have a fixed income amount. Members come and go, so do visitors and societies which can make up a sizeable %age of income. A very wet summer can knock £000's off the income sheet. Therefore, those clubs that can charge a joining fee and who invest it wisely are in my opinion doing the right thing.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I’m guessing if you are looking around that area you are looking at the likes of John O Gaunt which is a nice club with two good courses.

As for joining fees - if people are still paying them it’s because people want to join the club and it will be because the club/course is worth joining. We still have a joining fee and doesn’t seem to be putting many people off joining - same with a number of the courses in the area. The ones that have dropped the joining fee are the ones that are struggling for members and struggling as a course

 

[Jacko_G]

My opinion on joining fees is simple. I ain't paying one. No Sir, you can shove your joining fee and I'll go elsewhere is my answer.

A lot of these clubs are short sighted and will eventually end up reducing or waiving the joining fee in time. It will come as their membership gets older and dwindles away. It may "buy you loyalty" in the short term but long term all the potential members you have turned away could bite you. For every member that you sign up on joining fees you are loosing at least 15 potential members. That figure came from a friend who is a golf course managing secretary. His club has now done away with their joining fee and has seen a considerable rise in the percentage of enquiries converted into actual memberships.

I play at a Scottish Open venue and they didn't charge me a joining fee. I sure as heck am not going to be paying one elsewhere. Too many backward thinking clubs up here.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

My opinion on joining fees is simple. I ain't paying one. No Sir, you can shove your joining fee and I'll go elsewhere is my answer.

A lot of these clubs are short sighted and will eventually end up reducing or waiving the joining fee in time. It will come as their membership gets older and dwindles away. It may "buy you loyalty" in the short term but long term all the potential members you have turned away could bite you. For every member that you sign up on joining fees you are loosing at least 15 potential members. That figure came from a friend who is a golf course managing secretary. His club has now done away with their joining fee and has seen a considerable rise in the percentage of enquiries converted into actual memberships.

I play at a Scottish Open venue and they didn't charge me a joining fee. I sure as heck am not going to be paying one elsewhere. Too many backward thinking clubs up here.

That maybe the case in Scotland but I reckon that the majority of the clubs who are changing joining fees will also have a waiting list , new younger golfers are also joining with the joining fee and memberships are full. Some have a couple of years waiting lists and it will be able to continue to charge it whilst the product is worth it.

What a lot of clubs do is give the option of flexible payment plans to ensure it’s not a big initial outlay.

 

[Jacko_G]

That maybe the case in Scotland but I reckon that the majority of the clubs who are changing joining fees will also have a waiting list , new younger golfers are also joining with the joining fee and memberships are full. Some have a couple of years waiting lists and it will be able to continue to charge it whilst the product is worth it.

What a lot of clubs do is give the option of flexible payment plans to ensure it’s not a big initial outlay.

Some may have waiting lists but very very few do now, I know of clubs who are actively seeking members but are still insisting on 6 signatories, by heck even Blairgowrie are advertising for members at present! Changed days.

Also Phil remember that Scotland doesn't have the sheer numbers of population that England has. Very very few courses I know if have waiting lists up here, I'm confident you could walk up to 95% (possibly even higher) with a fat wallet full of cash and join there and then.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Some may have waiting lists but very very few do now, I know of clubs who are actively seeking members but are still insisting on 6 signatories, by heck even Blairgowrie are advertising for members at present! Changed days.

Also Phil remember that Scotland doesn't have the sheer numbers of population that England has. Very very few courses I know if have waiting lists up here, I'm confident you could walk up to 95% (possibly even higher) with a fat wallet full of cash and join there and then.

Well then they aren’t helping themselves if they are acting in that manner - can’t have barriers in place if the club is short of numbers. Does seem at times that clubs North of Border haven’t tried some of the schemes that clubs in England have used to get new members in.

 

[IanM]

I undersand Jacko's point... when I moved over the Bridge, Newport wanted one... although I object (strongly) in principle, I took a view about
1) Where else would I join? How do the courses compare?
2) How does the total cost compare against alternatives over 5 or 10 years
3) Members owned clubs v Propriatory/Hotel courses

......and paid it. 10 years later still there and v happy,

Of course, personal budget and other committments are paramount. That's a personal thing, cant argue with that.

We have groups of blokes in the area who move around every year depending on who offers the best deal. 3 propriatory courses have closed here within the past 2 years. Our committee also counter the "joining fee is a barrier to entry" arguement, with it stops "Club Hoppers" hopping here.

Most clubs budget to cover fixed costs from subs, all other income is available for improvements or profit. Some of those which closed had owners taking profits without maintaining the qulaity of the product. Their choice i guess. I would NEVER pay a joining fee to a propriatory club. (unless no better choice available!) ooops!

 

[patricks148]

We have a waiting list and a joining fee, Royal Dornoch has also though you have to do 5 years on the Struie course, which is as good as a waiting list.

I heard Royal Aberdeen are letting people in or at least letting people apply, prob due to the downturn in the Oils and Gas industries

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Its not just a England/Scotland divide, it’s also a north/south England divide.
The last Club up here in the NE that had a joining fee has just suspended it.
It was always known as the “posh club” in the area and even just 12yrs back when I moved up here it had a minimum of a 2 year waiting list, last few years has seen no waiting list and dwindling numbers, they had suggested binning the joining fee altogether, but understandibly current members were miffed, the compromise was to suspend the joining fee and open the club to 50 new memberships from 01 Jan 19, that proved popular and they filled the 50 vacancies in 3 days, they then increased it 75, filled the further 25 in another 3 days and are now no longer taking new members.
What or how they’ll cope in the medium to longer term we’ll have to wait and see.

I believe it’s N Yorks the closest place you’ll find courses with a joining fee still in place.

 

[jim8flog]

One of the things about a joining fee is that is putting you on the 'same footing' as existing long term members.

Where I play on top of the annual fee over the years I have paid, by way of development levies, a contribution to the building of an extension to the clubhouse, building a 9 hole course, the building of two secretaries offices, to a new pro shop, a driving range and locker room refurbishment.

 

[Tashyboy]

Was talking to a guy who was round at me house the other day. I knew he was a member at Sherwood, which is the nearest course to me. I pay £540 for five day at Norwood. He pays £1600. Three packets of Lockets eventually stopped me coughing. Fortunately he asked me to have a round with him. Hopefully this time it won't lash it down for four hours, or end up playing off winter tees like I have done the two times I have played it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Was talking to a guy who was round at me house the other day. I knew he was a member at Sherwood, which is the nearest course to me. I pay £540 for five day at Norwood. He pays £1600. Three packets of Lockets eventually stopped me coughing. Fortunately he asked me to have a round with him. Hopefully this time it won't lash it down for four hours, or end up playing off winter tees like I have done the two times I have played it.

But I have a feeling the relevant fees will be a good judge of the courses - Sherwood is a brilliant course in the Top 100 in the country. Norwood is just about top 10 in the county - and that’s why the fees will be different

 

[User 99]

Any club in my area who asked for a joining fee nowadays would't get a single member joining which is clearly a sign of the times cause 30 years ago I had my name down for my current club and it was dead mans shoes.

 

[virtuocity]

My opinion on joining fees is simple. I ain't paying one. No Sir, you can shove your joining fee and I'll go elsewhere is my answer.

A lot of these clubs are short sighted and will eventually end up reducing or waiving the joining fee in time. It will come as their membership gets older and dwindles away. It may "buy you loyalty" in the short term but long term all the potential members you have turned away could bite you. For every member that you sign up on joining fees you are loosing at least 15 potential members. That figure came from a friend who is a golf course managing secretary. His club has now done away with their joining fee and has seen a considerable rise in the percentage of enquiries converted into actual memberships.

I play at a Scottish Open venue and they didn't charge me a joining fee. I sure as heck am not going to be paying one elsewhere. Too many backward thinking clubs up here.

Completely agree. Irvine, St Nicks, Barassie and others all within a close drive, but I'm not forking out a grand only to potentially find that the members are knobs, the comps aren't organised well, the chips are soggy or I don't like playing the course every single week. It's a complete gamble and one I'm in no way inclined to take.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Was talking to a guy who was round at me house the other day. I knew he was a member at Sherwood, which is the nearest course to me. I pay £540 for five day at Norwood. He pays £1600. Three packets of Lockets eventually stopped me coughing. Fortunately he asked me to have a round with him. Hopefully this time it won't lash it down for four hours, or end up playing off winter tees like I have done the two times I have played it.

I'm sorry but with all due respect to your Club that is like comparing Man City to Burnley.

Also are you not looking at a Full I.e.7 day membership at Sherwood.

 

[Tashyboy]

I'm sorry but with all due respect to your Club that is like comparing Man City to Burnley.

Also are you not looking at a Full I.e.7 day membership at Sherwood.

Oh I know that and yes it is a 7 day v a five day but there is no way I could warrant paying £1600. Even he thought it excessive. However there are nearly 420 men who are prepared to pay that as he told me it is nearly full. So there are people that think that sum is worth it.