viscount17
Money List Winner
I think that even with SkyCaddie you still need the guide to give you the layout, but as has been said earlier SC is at its best on the final shot into the green.
How Accurate are SkyCaddie and the rest of the golf GPS Systems ?
- Thread starter SS2
- Start date
SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
SS - being blunt...why donit you use yours and find out how good it is for yourself....?
SS2
Tour Rookie
That's exactly what I intend to do Sammme.
SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
I think you will be suprised how accurate they are (or how inaccurate your golf course is!!)....just remember though that not everyone has the same idea of where the front of the green is - that is the biggets problem....
Cernunnos
Journeyman Pro
Last week I started to Map a local course of mine, with my Sureshot-8800 & have so far mapped all the greens front middle & back & one or two of the bunkers where relevent so far (Will add all the hazards in due course).
Now I played there again today & did find meassurements for the front & backs of the greens were generally 1 or 2 yards out from how I'd initially mapped them. This is an error I'm more than happy to put up with & certainly would make very little difference in the grand schemes of things, as I can guarentee the error/dispertion rate of my irons is going to be in the order of 5 yards, though its ironic that several of the balls I was testing today went with the same shots & feel were landing distance wise within a yard or three so of each other distance wise certainly upto a 7 iron. Infact I had two seperate balls laying in the same bunker with the same weight of shot, exactly level with each other.
Irony is that iron choice this time last year would have been off the back of the green, not in the new-moon shapped bunker to the front of the green, shows how much effect my layoff has had on my game, but at least I can say my current shots are generally fairly consistent with each other, so add this to a 2 yard varience in GPS waypoints I think over the next few months this will prove invaluble as I map my Irons as well as courses.
Now I played there again today & did find meassurements for the front & backs of the greens were generally 1 or 2 yards out from how I'd initially mapped them. This is an error I'm more than happy to put up with & certainly would make very little difference in the grand schemes of things, as I can guarentee the error/dispertion rate of my irons is going to be in the order of 5 yards, though its ironic that several of the balls I was testing today went with the same shots & feel were landing distance wise within a yard or three so of each other distance wise certainly upto a 7 iron. Infact I had two seperate balls laying in the same bunker with the same weight of shot, exactly level with each other.
Irony is that iron choice this time last year would have been off the back of the green, not in the new-moon shapped bunker to the front of the green, shows how much effect my layoff has had on my game, but at least I can say my current shots are generally fairly consistent with each other, so add this to a 2 yard varience in GPS waypoints I think over the next few months this will prove invaluble as I map my Irons as well as courses.
With all this talk again of skycaddy, I've bitten the bullet and put a SG5 onto my flexable friend. I got a great deal from a local pro shop.
Can't wait to use it, and compare it with my other GPS that you all know about.
Can't wait to use it, and compare it with my other GPS that you all know about.
Herbie
Tour Winner
I have been following this accuracy issue and also looking into it and I am left enlightened but not impressed.
Its still great kit for giving you a rough idea of distance but thats all it is, a rough idea! Handy in some cases it maybe, but having been misled by earlier publications and promotions of this product and its accuracy, I have now gone from a position of 'maybe I'll get one', to 'Not anymore'.
If I can pace from a known distance I can get just as accurate, if not better results, so there is no great interest in them for me after investigating their accuracy.
One or two sites Ive visited have similar accuracy results but one had slightly higher inaccuracy, Im sure if you search all the web it will average out to a similar inaccuracy.
For me, its just too inaccurate to spend such a sum of dosh on, so I have to thank this thread for prompting me to look into it more and saving me from almost parting with my dosh.
If they come down to a tenner a throw I might be interested again.
Its still great kit for giving you a rough idea of distance but thats all it is, a rough idea! Handy in some cases it maybe, but having been misled by earlier publications and promotions of this product and its accuracy, I have now gone from a position of 'maybe I'll get one', to 'Not anymore'.
If I can pace from a known distance I can get just as accurate, if not better results, so there is no great interest in them for me after investigating their accuracy.
One or two sites Ive visited have similar accuracy results but one had slightly higher inaccuracy, Im sure if you search all the web it will average out to a similar inaccuracy.
For me, its just too inaccurate to spend such a sum of dosh on, so I have to thank this thread for prompting me to look into it more and saving me from almost parting with my dosh.
If they come down to a tenner a throw I might be interested again.
Leftie
Tour Winner
I think you may have missed something M8.
For me (and I note above, others), the accuracy (SC2.5) is not in question. From my experience and as near as I can tell it is accurate to within 1 yard compared with Google Earth images, 200/150 and 100 yard markers on my home courses (if you give it a few seconds to settle once you have stopped walking), all sprinkler head yardages at the London Club, and even the other 3 types of GPS units used in our 4 ball at the London Club gave similar results within a yard or two.
I'm quite happy for you to pace out from markers to your ball as I was when I did it. If, heaven forbid, your shot was offline enough that you cannot get the distance from the fairway markers (say on an adjoining fairway), do you pace out to the green for the yardage and then back to the ball, or just make an educated or otherwise guess?
BTW. How have you checked the accuracy of the yardage markers on your course or for that matter any other course?
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Thats is a good point. SC will give you the reading from adjacent fiarways etc so if you do hit one into another postcode you still get a reading. How pratical is it on a busy course to walk from one fairway to another (with the likelihood of others having to wait for you) counting your paces until you reach a recognised reference point. With SC you can get a reading make a decision and play your shot and get onto the correct part of the course quicker but with the right club for the job.
I am happy to put up with the discpreancies in yardages. For my level of golf that size of marging is within acceptable parameters. I happen to think that anyone expecting a commercially priced product like SC to be 100% accurate or flawless is naive at best. There maybe the technology out there to give more accurate information than SC provides but the cost of such equipment means it will not be viable to sell to club golfers. Is there even anything out there that is truely 100% accurate all of the time?
I am happy to put up with the discpreancies in yardages. For my level of golf that size of marging is within acceptable parameters. I happen to think that anyone expecting a commercially priced product like SC to be 100% accurate or flawless is naive at best. There maybe the technology out there to give more accurate information than SC provides but the cost of such equipment means it will not be viable to sell to club golfers. Is there even anything out there that is truely 100% accurate all of the time?
SammmeBee
Journeyman Pro
I have been following this accuracy issue and also looking into it and I am left enlightened but not impressed.
Its still great kit for giving you a rough idea of distance but thats all it is, a rough idea! Handy in some cases it maybe, but having been misled by earlier publications and promotions of this product and its accuracy, I have now gone from a position of 'maybe I'll get one', to 'Not anymore'.
If I can pace from a known distance I can get just as accurate, if not better results, so there is no great interest in them for me after investigating their accuracy.
One or two sites Ive visited have similar accuracy results but one had slightly higher inaccuracy, Im sure if you search all the web it will average out to a similar inaccuracy.
For me, its just too inaccurate to spend such a sum of dosh on, so I have to thank this thread for prompting me to look into it more and saving me from almost parting with my dosh.
If they come down to a tenner a throw I might be interested again.
I think you've really missed the point - it's about the distance from where YOU are to where the FRONT/MIDDLE/BACK green.....
If your 150 marker (to the middle) is in the middle of the fairway and you are 10 paces behind it but over on the far left of a wide fairway how far are you away from a pin that is middle right of the green - 160 yards in your book I suspect......
Have you ever used one? My advice is try one out and see for yourself....
Herbie
Tour Winner
I think you may have missed something M8.
For me (and I note above, others), the accuracy (SC2.5) is not in question. From my experience and as near as I can tell it is accurate to within 1 yard compared with Google Earth images, 200/150 and 100 yard markers on my home courses (if you give it a few seconds to settle once you have stopped walking), all sprinkler head yardages at the London Club, and even the other 3 types of GPS units used in our 4 ball at the London Club gave similar results within a yard or two.
I'm quite happy for you to pace out from markers to your ball as I was when I did it. If, heaven forbid, your shot was offline enough that you cannot get the distance from the fairway markers (say on an adjoining fairway), do you pace out to the green for the yardage and then back to the ball, or just make an educated or otherwise guess?
BTW. How have you checked the accuracy of the yardage markers on your course or for that matter any other course?
I haven't missed anything M8, the accuracy of all this technology is questionable.
At first I was led to believe the accuracy was more than it actually is. I simply gave my opinion on this kit as a whole and my reasons for not buying. This in my view does not justify ridicule or facetious comment regarding pacing.
My pacing is accurate but Im not going to wander all over the course all day long during a game, most of my pacing is done without others being aware and on this course I am accumulating known distances everyday I play from simply pacing, all of my shots involve a degree of distance judgement but I find that in many cases it will be just as accurate(if not better)as this technology and often completed before people with this kit have picked it up and looked at it when they reach their ball. I dont see the justification in such a reply.
As for stuffing one onto another fairway, 9 times out of 10 I just rough judge a shot down said fairway to give me a better shot across to greens or I simply hit back into play, how SC or any other device is going to help me there is again, questionable!
Leftie
Tour Winner
I thought about doing a poll on this one....
Those who have got/used GPS
Perceived/known accuracy - Within 2 yards, within 5 yds, etc
Those who have not got/used GPS
Perceived accuracy - Within 2 yards, within 5 yds, etc
But I really can't be a**ed any more on this one. I'm out
Those who have got/used GPS
Perceived/known accuracy - Within 2 yards, within 5 yds, etc
Those who have not got/used GPS
Perceived accuracy - Within 2 yards, within 5 yds, etc
But I really can't be a**ed any more on this one. I'm out
Cernunnos
Journeyman Pro
"HNJ". A pace is simply that a pace. If you meassure something in paces it'll always be paces. Everyones pace is different & is rarely anything aproaching yards.
Everyones pace is individual to them. Ask 10 different people to pace a set distance, & you will get ten different results.
With GPS, yes there are times when satalites in the sky will alter number, meaning programed points will have a small varience of error of a couple of yards. But a distance between two points will always be the same, even with this slight varience of programed points.
Then we get onto the real nitty gritty of why people get GPS for golf is we can eyeball a yardage & make a best guess, but this is subject to optical illusions from time to time. Then yes you could pace about all over the place during a round, but this encorages slow play & again is no guarentee of yardage at all in any way shape or form. Yes we can try & save a bit of time & have used counting paces from tee to ball, to make a best guess of yardage left to green in an effort to save time. Though I will guarentee this will be well over 5 yards out, it could be 10 or 20 or 40, if its a parr 5 or someting like.
Yet, take one glance at the GPS screen & you can instantly get a decent reading of hazards distances & green front middle & back distances at no more than a glance. 9 times out of 10 this will be all the information needed.
If you need any lay of land information this can be gleemed from a glance at a course guide. So no need to waste valuble time pacing hither & thither, no matter how much you may trust your pace its never going to be as dependable as that of GPS.
Only varient then lies with the golfer & that's our own problem.
Its the Human factor that is ever the only real variation of an unditemined error.
Everyones pace is individual to them. Ask 10 different people to pace a set distance, & you will get ten different results.
With GPS, yes there are times when satalites in the sky will alter number, meaning programed points will have a small varience of error of a couple of yards. But a distance between two points will always be the same, even with this slight varience of programed points.
Then we get onto the real nitty gritty of why people get GPS for golf is we can eyeball a yardage & make a best guess, but this is subject to optical illusions from time to time. Then yes you could pace about all over the place during a round, but this encorages slow play & again is no guarentee of yardage at all in any way shape or form. Yes we can try & save a bit of time & have used counting paces from tee to ball, to make a best guess of yardage left to green in an effort to save time. Though I will guarentee this will be well over 5 yards out, it could be 10 or 20 or 40, if its a parr 5 or someting like.
Yet, take one glance at the GPS screen & you can instantly get a decent reading of hazards distances & green front middle & back distances at no more than a glance. 9 times out of 10 this will be all the information needed.
If you need any lay of land information this can be gleemed from a glance at a course guide. So no need to waste valuble time pacing hither & thither, no matter how much you may trust your pace its never going to be as dependable as that of GPS.
Only varient then lies with the golfer & that's our own problem.
Its the Human factor that is ever the only real variation of an unditemined error.
Herbie
Tour Winner
A pace is very relevant if you know exactly how many paces makes the yardage. I know that my normal pace gives me 10 yds to 12 paces give or take 1 to 4 inches. I know that if I walk as much as 360 paces this will be 300 yds to within 2 to 4 yds ( more accurate than some of the technology available) Likewise with 100 yds/150 yds and 250yds, I know I can pace all these with 1 to 3 yds difference.Pacing is individual, but if you have a regular/consistant pace and you take steps to measure your pace over different distances and repeat the process you can have an accurate tool at your disposal without cost.But if like me you trust course measurements then you never have to pace out 300yds
And cernunnos, you missed my point earlier where I clearly stated that I DONT walk all over the course and that my pacing is done, often without others noticing and often completed BEFORE the gadgets are brought out and looked at, so where you get the idea of lost time pacing where I am concerned, I dont know, I guess its an experience thing? Lost time pacing is no different to the lost time some technology users lose when looking at a gps unit as if its a novel,waiting for it to settle or confused by its reading, something most dont realise they do.
As far as optical illusions go, this does not affect me, I use whats on the card or on the course and paces as I go along, there would be no difference to me if I used gps or my own calculations,I trust course measurements and markers and for 30 yrs+ have been pretty accurate, if Im not accurate I am more than happy with the golf I have achieved in the past and the golf I play now by being inaccurate.
And cernunnos, you missed my point earlier where I clearly stated that I DONT walk all over the course and that my pacing is done, often without others noticing and often completed BEFORE the gadgets are brought out and looked at, so where you get the idea of lost time pacing where I am concerned, I dont know, I guess its an experience thing? Lost time pacing is no different to the lost time some technology users lose when looking at a gps unit as if its a novel,waiting for it to settle or confused by its reading, something most dont realise they do.
As far as optical illusions go, this does not affect me, I use whats on the card or on the course and paces as I go along, there would be no difference to me if I used gps or my own calculations,I trust course measurements and markers and for 30 yrs+ have been pretty accurate, if Im not accurate I am more than happy with the golf I have achieved in the past and the golf I play now by being inaccurate.
jammydodger
Tour Winner
I use a 2.5 SC and comments on here relating to judgement by eyesight compared to reading from the SC are very interesting. I have had times where I get a reading of say 135yards to centre but to my eyes it seems 120-125 so I take a wedge not trusting the SC. What happens ? I come up short by a club...every time ! So i've given up on trusting my eyesight and now go fully with SC because I dont give a stuff if its out 2 yards as long as it's not out by 10/15 yards.
I find my SC very helpful indeed and shall continue to be grateful that we are now allowed to use them in comps.
I find my SC very helpful indeed and shall continue to be grateful that we are now allowed to use them in comps.
Cernunnos
Journeyman Pro
HNJ, if it works for you, then carry on. I've never had too many problems with yardage markers & using a course planner. Must admit I do sometimes pace from tee to ball. And at times start counting again after 150 in & do mental calculation combined with what I see. Usually works well enough...
I've just got a Golf GPS (Presant) & seems already to let me just get on with playing. When I used it the other day I seemed a lot calmer & had great confidence in what club & stroke I was deciding to use. Even though I'mused to eyeballing distances or what club I see for the shot before me.
At the end of the day its horses for courses. I know before I got one a mate of mine would be using his & I'd be eyeballing the distances with as much accuracy as he was getting & When someone would ask for a yardage I would be giving my assesment, before my mate had even looked at his GPS.
Perhaps now I have a GPS I'm using both eyeballing & what my Gizmo is telling me & I supose that has incresed my confidence & desisiveness... So for me at least although I probably don't need this expensive toy, its a help in its own way, as I've had more mental focusso far.
I've just got a Golf GPS (Presant) & seems already to let me just get on with playing. When I used it the other day I seemed a lot calmer & had great confidence in what club & stroke I was deciding to use. Even though I'mused to eyeballing distances or what club I see for the shot before me.
At the end of the day its horses for courses. I know before I got one a mate of mine would be using his & I'd be eyeballing the distances with as much accuracy as he was getting & When someone would ask for a yardage I would be giving my assesment, before my mate had even looked at his GPS.
Perhaps now I have a GPS I'm using both eyeballing & what my Gizmo is telling me & I supose that has incresed my confidence & desisiveness... So for me at least although I probably don't need this expensive toy, its a help in its own way, as I've had more mental focusso far.
SS2
Tour Rookie
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this debate so far but now I finally have some practical experiences to share.
I am just back from a round at my home course (Cawder) with the Sky Caddie.
On each Par 4 and par 5 I stood on the 150 yd fairway markers and on every hole except one the Sky caddie yardage to the front on the green was within +/1 one yard. On one occasion it was 2yards. I also did the same on some of the 200yd and 100yd markers and got similar results. The accuracy of our fairway markers was verified by Strokesaver when they surveyed the course for a new course guide approx 3 years ago.
So, on the accuracy issue I can have no complaints. That's great news having just forked out £240 for the SG5. (that was the best price I could find, 118golf.co.uk)
What I have learned so far from just one round is:
1. I usually underestimate the distance to the middle of the green on my approach shots
2. I overestimate how far I can hit my irons
These two are a dangerous combination. Ok, the course was soaking and the ball was not running at all on landing but at the 2nd I hit a pretty good 19deg hybrid off the tee, Expecting to get 185++yds out of it. Nope, SG5's "mark" function told me the ball went 167yards. The fault here is entirely mine and I suspect that many other mid/high handicappers suffer like me from thinking "I can hit club X about Y yards" when in fact reality is Y-30 yards.
Another aspect which I found very useful was short approach shots. I carry 4 wedges: 60deg, 56,52 and 48 and would have previous said that I could get 75, 95, 110 and 130 yards out of them. Wrong, I think today it was more like 65,85,105 and 120. I need to get to the practice area and use the SG5 Mark facility to place markers at 40,50,60,70,80,90 and 100 yards and then spend an hour hitting balls to each marker in turn.
A couple of times I was miles wide of the fairway and in this kind of circumstance the SG5 is great because the fairway markers (and probably a paper-based course guide) would not be able to help you out.
Summary:
1. Do I think the SG5 is accurate?
Yes, for a golfer of my (limited) ability +/- 3 yards would be acceptable and the SG5 seems to perform better than that
2. Did it help my game today
It increased my knowledge of the course and my own capabilities which should both help me in the medium term
3. Did it speed up or slow down my play
I don't think it made any difference
4. What did my playing partners think of it?
They showed some interest but I reckon they thought it was a bit of a waste of money. The only direct comment made to me was "Andy, why didn't you spend the money on lessons instead"... One of them clearly has a very good eye for distances as he could predict a lot of his approach shots to within +'- 5yds
I am just back from a round at my home course (Cawder) with the Sky Caddie.
On each Par 4 and par 5 I stood on the 150 yd fairway markers and on every hole except one the Sky caddie yardage to the front on the green was within +/1 one yard. On one occasion it was 2yards. I also did the same on some of the 200yd and 100yd markers and got similar results. The accuracy of our fairway markers was verified by Strokesaver when they surveyed the course for a new course guide approx 3 years ago.
So, on the accuracy issue I can have no complaints. That's great news having just forked out £240 for the SG5. (that was the best price I could find, 118golf.co.uk)
What I have learned so far from just one round is:
1. I usually underestimate the distance to the middle of the green on my approach shots
2. I overestimate how far I can hit my irons
These two are a dangerous combination. Ok, the course was soaking and the ball was not running at all on landing but at the 2nd I hit a pretty good 19deg hybrid off the tee, Expecting to get 185++yds out of it. Nope, SG5's "mark" function told me the ball went 167yards. The fault here is entirely mine and I suspect that many other mid/high handicappers suffer like me from thinking "I can hit club X about Y yards" when in fact reality is Y-30 yards.
Another aspect which I found very useful was short approach shots. I carry 4 wedges: 60deg, 56,52 and 48 and would have previous said that I could get 75, 95, 110 and 130 yards out of them. Wrong, I think today it was more like 65,85,105 and 120. I need to get to the practice area and use the SG5 Mark facility to place markers at 40,50,60,70,80,90 and 100 yards and then spend an hour hitting balls to each marker in turn.
A couple of times I was miles wide of the fairway and in this kind of circumstance the SG5 is great because the fairway markers (and probably a paper-based course guide) would not be able to help you out.
Summary:
1. Do I think the SG5 is accurate?
Yes, for a golfer of my (limited) ability +/- 3 yards would be acceptable and the SG5 seems to perform better than that
2. Did it help my game today
It increased my knowledge of the course and my own capabilities which should both help me in the medium term
3. Did it speed up or slow down my play
I don't think it made any difference
4. What did my playing partners think of it?
They showed some interest but I reckon they thought it was a bit of a waste of money. The only direct comment made to me was "Andy, why didn't you spend the money on lessons instead"... One of them clearly has a very good eye for distances as he could predict a lot of his approach shots to within +'- 5yds
Leftie
Tour Winner
Good post SS2.
You went into it with a completely open mind and have proved to yourself and hopefully to the cynics here what many of us "converted" users have been saying for quite some time.
You went into it with a completely open mind and have proved to yourself and hopefully to the cynics here what many of us "converted" users have been saying for quite some time.
welshjim22
Head Pro
When 4 of us played The London Club there were, I believe, 3 or possibly 4 different GPS devices between us. In most, if not all cases, when we checked there was not much than a yard or two difference between them.
The yardages on the sprinkler heads were also checked against the GPS units and found to be accurate.
At my home club we have 200,150 and 100 yd fairway markers to the centre of the green. My SC2.5 confirms the distances to within 1 yard (I suppose this could in effect be virtually 18" accuracy with rounding up/down). As a sad old git, I have also checked the fairway markers with Google Earth and have found them to be accurate with his tool as well.
I just wish that I could hit my ball that accurately
I was at that meet at the London club and have to say i think we all had GPS which were all pretty close. It gives us all a guide to work by. I know on a good strike my 7 iron goes 130yards by my GPS. I still need the good strike. I have a GPS Golflogix and have been really impressed by the service. On my first round i noticed my old club didn't have a bunker showing. i emailed the company in Arizona and had a reply within a few hours telling me to download a new version as they had updated the mapping for me. I have the previous version and it only gives me 3 points per hole plus front, back and middle of green. Others give more points but i am not good enough to need all that info yet. Bottom line however good the GPS is you need the shot to match.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
HNJ
I presume you alter the length of your "accuarate" pace to take into account the variance in terrain you are going over.
I think SS2 sums it up pretty neatly in that it will help a lot of golfers realise what they actually hit as opposed to what the macho part of their golfing brain believes and that in all honesty most of us don't actually take enough club to hit middle of greens. The accuracy variance will exist on ALL models until the technology to produe 100% accurate (i.e military standard) becomes a reality (in real terms probably never - does 100% accurate even exist for these things?) and it is something I'm happy to live with
I presume you alter the length of your "accuarate" pace to take into account the variance in terrain you are going over.
I think SS2 sums it up pretty neatly in that it will help a lot of golfers realise what they actually hit as opposed to what the macho part of their golfing brain believes and that in all honesty most of us don't actually take enough club to hit middle of greens. The accuracy variance will exist on ALL models until the technology to produe 100% accurate (i.e military standard) becomes a reality (in real terms probably never - does 100% accurate even exist for these things?) and it is something I'm happy to live with
