Holed or Not

[Neilds]

So a ball hit from 100 yards that bounces in the cup and rebounds away....is it holed....because based on your logic it is....and I doubt anyone would say that it is.
You can't have a rule that differentiates the outcome based on the speed the ball is going.
It's either in the hole, or partly, or it ain't.....

Try reading the whole thread and particularly my replies and you may see that I don’t use that logic at all. I am responding to the situation in the video and not pitches bouncing out etc.

 

[Tiger man]

Not holed, worries me that it's even a debate. Hope nobody is counting them in comps.

 

[The Autumn Wind]

Not holed.

 

[ScienceBoy]

The phrase “benefit of the doubt” applies, if it looks to the impartial observer that it would likely have been holed otherwise then it is.

There is always going to be a line and some will draw it differently compared to others, especially where clubs differ on hole safety solutions.

I had two instances in my previous round, we considered both holed, and I used “benefit of the doubt” to aid me in my decision making.

In other words, without good evidence otherwise, consider it holed.

 

[williamalex1]

Not holed , but the pin should be narrower at the base.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

If it was Imurg, definitely not holed

It would have been for a 6 for 1 so not really relevant.

 

[williamalex1]

This is the downside of the varying methods of dealing with the cup at the moment. With the initial metod (cup upside down) it was simple, if it hits the cup it is in. With the cups that are very shallow, things like this are far more likely. Under the current rules, that would not be holed but I am sure that there are those that would disagree as there is little doubt the ball would have dropped if the hole was set up as normal pre covid.. As such, during a competition, I are pretty sure you will find a disparity in that some groups will call that holed, right or not, and others will not.

This is one situation where it would help if the R&A did a few short youtube videos for clubs to post so as we are all singing from the same hymn sheet.

Where does it say that it's a shallow hole ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Not holed. We had a competition yesterday and the only provision was that if it struck the centre of the flagstick and bounced out it was deemed holed only if everybody else agreed . As it happened this only occurred once when a PP hit a 3 footer and it hit dead centre at a sensible pace and bounced back towards him and would definitely have gone in under normal circumstances

 

[Foxholer]

Not holed according to RofG, but fine if playing under CV19 amendments. It's not obvious to me whether there are inserts within the cup/CV19 conditions/amendments.

 

[GB72]

Not holed. We had a competition yesterday and the only provision was that if it struck the centre of the flagstick and bounced out it was deemed holed only if everybody else agreed . As it happened this only occurred once when a PP hit a 3 footer and it hit dead centre at a sensible pace and bounced back towards him and would definitely have gone in under normal circumstances

Just a question, how can you have a competition where the question about holing a putt becomes one of opinion and not definitive. Surely there has to be done solid ruling for everyone to apply to make it a level playing field.

 

[GB72]

Where does it say that it's a shallow hole ?

Just an assumption on the basis that I assumed the question was based on a more unique covid rules situation. If it was a full depth hole then clearly not holed

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Just a question, how can you have a competition where the question about holing a putt becomes one of opinion and not definitive. Surely there has to be done solid ruling for everyone to apply to make it a level playing field.

From the club:

Dear member,

This Sunday we will be running a non-qualifying roll-up stableford competition which will be open to all members playing 18 holes on Sunday 7th June. The format for the competition will be as follows:
• Book a tee off time as normal
• When you arrive at the club on Sunday, the volunteer on the gate will ask if you wish to enter the day's competition. If you enter, the entry fee will be deducted from your pro shop account.
• Only one scorecard to be submitted from each group and the first player to arrive for each tee off time will be handed a scorecard on the gate. Each subsequent person from that group will be told who has the scorecard for their group
• When the round is completed, a box will be available by the pro shop where scorecards can be deposited in a contactless way.
• Robert will then process the results & issue a results list on Monday 8th June. Prizes will come from the pro shop and all entry fees will go towards prizes. If entry numbers allow then there will be separate prizes for men & ladies if possible.
• Men will play from the white tees & ladies from the red tees.
With social distancing & pace of play in mind there will be a few local rules in place:
• Preferred lies in the bunker within 6 inches of your balls position.
• Maximum of 2 minutes searching for a golf ball. Only the player who has lost the ball may search for it to ensure social distancing is adhered to.
• If you can't score on a hole then pick up at the earliest opportunity to keep the pace of play going.
• If a ball hits the base of the flagstick while putting and pops back out of the hole this can be counted as holed only if there is approval from all members of your group that there is little to no doubt it would have gone in under normal circumstances. If unanimous agreement that it would have gone in is not achieved then the putt will not count as holed & you must finish the hole accordingly.
I hope that all makes sense & hopefully you will all be able to enjoy a bit of fun competition. If this is a success then we will look to run further fun competitions over the coming weeks until qualifying competitions are allowed again.

 

[GB72]

From the club:

Dear member,

This Sunday we will be running a non-qualifying roll-up stableford competition which will be open to all members playing 18 holes on Sunday 7th June. The format for the competition will be as follows:
• Book a tee off time as normal
• When you arrive at the club on Sunday, the volunteer on the gate will ask if you wish to enter the day's competition. If you enter, the entry fee will be deducted from your pro shop account.
• Only one scorecard to be submitted from each group and the first player to arrive for each tee off time will be handed a scorecard on the gate. Each subsequent person from that group will be told who has the scorecard for their group
• When the round is completed, a box will be available by the pro shop where scorecards can be deposited in a contactless way.
• Robert will then process the results & issue a results list on Monday 8th June. Prizes will come from the pro shop and all entry fees will go towards prizes. If entry numbers allow then there will be separate prizes for men & ladies if possible.
• Men will play from the white tees & ladies from the red tees.
With social distancing & pace of play in mind there will be a few local rules in place:
• Preferred lies in the bunker within 6 inches of your balls position.
• Maximum of 2 minutes searching for a golf ball. Only the player who has lost the ball may search for it to ensure social distancing is adhered to.
• If you can't score on a hole then pick up at the earliest opportunity to keep the pace of play going.
• If a ball hits the base of the flagstick while putting and pops back out of the hole this can be counted as holed only if there is approval from all members of your group that there is little to no doubt it would have gone in under normal circumstances. If unanimous agreement that it would have gone in is not achieved then the putt will not count as holed & you must finish the hole accordingly.
I hope that all makes sense & hopefully you will all be able to enjoy a bit of fun competition. If this is a success then we will look to run further fun competitions over the coming weeks until qualifying competitions are allowed again.

Ok non qualifying clears it up as just a bit of fun but whether a ball is holed or not should never be a matter of opinion, it needs something definitive.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Crikey what a load of baloney in this thread, glad I'm not playing at some of the courses being used as examples.

Yes, feel free to say you're glad too ??

I agree and sad people question every single detail. As a first foray back into competitive golf it all worked rather well

 

[Mandofred]

Our course has done something somewhat like that coat hanger thingy I saw a couple of weeks ago. On each flag they have rigged up a round donut looking thing that fits down in the hole around the flag. They rigged a string up from that that goes through a piece of plastic taped/connected to the flag with a large plastic tie in a loop at the end. You stick your putter in the loop and give it a jerk and the ball comes flying out of the hole. Seems to work pretty well.....and your ball gets to fall into the hole.

 

[GB72]

I agree and sad people question every single detail. As a first foray back into competitive golf it all worked rather well

I'm sorry was that aimed at me. If so, really rather unnecessary for voicing an opinion that was salient bearing in mind the thread was discussing whether a putt was holed, we have dozens of different opinions on whether a putt was holed and the competition rule was that the whole group needed to have the same opinion on a putt

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm sorry was that aimed at me. If so, really rather unnecessary for voicing an opinion that was salient bearing in mind the thread was discussing whether a putt was holed, we have dozens of different opinions on whether a putt was holed and the competition rule was that the whole group needed to have the same opinion on a putt

Unsurprising perhaps given your record regarding nit picking some of my recent posts. I thought the original description was salient enough but not and I thought it would have been fairly easy to join the dots to come up with the fact it was a non qualifier given pick and place in bunkers and agreement of whether a putt is holed. Clearly not

 

[GB72]

Unsurprising perhaps given your record regarding nit picking some of my recent posts. I thought the original description was salient enough but not and I thought it would have been fairly easy to join the dots to come up with the fact it was a non qualifier given pick and place in bunkers and agreement of whether a putt is holed. Clearly not

I merely ask questions and make points as I see fit in this forum, I really have no agenda of an sort. In this case, the fundamental of competitive golf is to get the ball in the hole and I just feel that clubs should have a rule, any rule, that does not make that act one of opinion.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I’d give myself the putt in a friendly knock, assuming it hit something in the hole which is there as a cv19 protection.

 

[williamalex1]

Our course has done something somewhat like that coat hanger thingy I saw a couple of weeks ago. On each flag they have rigged up a round donut looking thing that fits down in the hole around the flag. They rigged a string up from that that goes through a piece of plastic taped/connected to the flag with a large plastic tie in a loop at the end. You stick your putter in the loop and give it a jerk and the ball comes flying out of the hole. Seems to work pretty well.....and your ball gets to fall into the hole.