Neilds
Assistant Pro
My point is, if it were a normal putt into a normal hole then the question wouldn’t have even been posted, or if it were there would have been one response and thread closed. We all know the ball must be at rest with some part of it below the surface.
In this case it is not a lip out, it hits the bottom of the upturned cup and pops out. The question to everyone was would you say this is holed under the current conditions. And if I was playing with anyone who said it wasn’t holed I would probably think twice about playing with them again
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Yeah, this. I believe the R&A stated that with the shallower cups during the pandemic, if the ball clearly hits the base of the shallow cup it counts as holed, even if it bounces out. So it's holed.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
have you got this statement ?
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Doesn’t the hole have to be a certain depth according to the rules?
Of course it’s holed.
Of course it’s holed.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Seriously...! A bit dramatic dont you think...
On occasions, in normal play with normal holes, a ball will hit the bottom of the cup and bounce out.....is that holed.?
A ball hit from 100 yards out bounces on the upturned cup like in the example but bounces out and goes in a bunker....is that holed..?
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Sorry I don't keep a portfolio of golf rulings. I read it recently and remembered it using the power of memory.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
As per IMurg #19
What they have done to the hole is irrelevant to the question being posed.
.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
?
Mandofred
Well-known member
You would hate playing with me then. Our groups were getting arguments about just this type of putt. These putts weren't always making an audible noise. There very much were questions about whether the ball bounced off the bottom of the upturned cup.....or not. For a short period we were using upturned cups and we were supposed to count it if it hit the flag. Other arguments came out of that as well. One guy I played with hit a long chip that ran like hell and bounced off the bottom of the flag. NO WAY that ball would have gone in a hole....but by the rules we were playing by....it counted. No argument from me.....that was the rule we were playing by. It's just setting things up for arguments about whether they "counted" or not. There were a few people getting a bit pissed off because others weren't agreeing with them when they thought the putt should have counted. If the rule is that the ball has to stay in the cup.....no chance for disagreements.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Well if it’s a ruling then surely it will be there at your club when they sent out the updated rulings ?
I have checked the R&A and there doesn’t seem to anything along the lines of what you suggest so maybe it was a local club ruling as opposed one from the R&A
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
At my place with upside down cup - that was holed according to the ruling we had in place.
However, we've gone to foam tube in the hole to allow the ball to drop. On Saturday one of my playing companions had his 2nd shot on our par 4 4th hole bounce straight into the hole on it's 2nd bounce, and straight back out again off the foam. Was that holed? Apparently not we were later advised.
Well should his eagle 2 have stood?
No matter - on our par 4 8th I holed my 2nd shot from 60yds - and it stayed in the hole. At the same time one of my companions also birdied it, and our third player lipped out from 6ft for a birdie. Would have been a nice little three ball clutch of scores - though 4-3-2 was still good.
However, we've gone to foam tube in the hole to allow the ball to drop. On Saturday one of my playing companions had his 2nd shot on our par 4 4th hole bounce straight into the hole on it's 2nd bounce, and straight back out again off the foam. Was that holed? Apparently not we were later advised.
Well should his eagle 2 have stood?
No matter - on our par 4 8th I holed my 2nd shot from 60yds - and it stayed in the hole. At the same time one of my companions also birdied it, and our third player lipped out from 6ft for a birdie. Would have been a nice little three ball clutch of scores - though 4-3-2 was still good.
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Neilds
Assistant Pro
Not the scenario, not the question so a pointless point - if there is such thing!
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
So a ball hit from 100 yards that bounces in the cup and rebounds away....is it holed....because based on your logic it is....and I doubt anyone would say that it is.
You can't have a rule that differentiates the outcome based on the speed the ball is going.
It's either in the hole, or partly, or it ain't.....
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
It looked just like that - but it wasn't his mega-spin that bounced the ball out - just a bit of foam
I was inclined to say no - our #3 in the 3 ball was very much a yes.
But on the OP - a def yes at our place if the ball hits the flag when the cup was upside down it's holed according to the ruling we had in place. If it lips out by hitting the rim of the upside down hole then the club ruling was that it's not. Looking at the OP video I don't think the ball hit the flag - it hit the rim of the upturned cup - and so 'as was' at our place - not holed.
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rosecott
Money List Winner
Normally yes, but according to the R&A during the pandemic situation:
"A method of inserting the hole liner to be used that means that all of the ball does not fall below the surface of the putting green and can be easily retrieved by handling the ball only."
And, from CONGU for QRs:
" Flagsticks/Holes: If clubs have made the decision to modify the depth of the hole to allow players to remove the ball without touching the flagstick, scores will be acceptable for either competition or supplementary score purposes. In such cases, the ball is considered holed if any part of the ball is below the surface of the putting green, even if not lodged against the flagstick. "
OP answered.
rosecott
Money List Winner
It looked just like that - but it wasn't his mega-spin that bounced the ball out - just a bit of foam
I was inclined to day no - our #3 in the 3 ball was very much a yes.
But on the OP - a def yes at our place - if the ball hits the flag when the cup was upside down it's holed. If it lips out by hitting the rim of the upside down hole then it's not.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mind betting there are a few arguments there - sounds like a case for VAR.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Jim.
Are you saying that if any part of the ball goes below the playing surface at any time then the ball is holed..?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Indeed there was. Before we changed to foam tube in the hole a playing partner clattered his putt off the flag way, way too hard and it rocketed away to the side - it was deemed holed. I then rolled up an almost perfect weight putt and it lipped out off the rim of the cup just below level of putting surface - and deemed not holed ... I lost the hole - hmmm. But given the circumstances pre-lockdown it really matter at all to me.
rosecott
Money List Winner
I'm not saying anything, just quoting.
If I was asked to say anything, it would be that the completion of the hole depends on the final finishing position of the ball - in strokeplay of course, matchplay is different because of concessions.
