Has Equality Harmed Womens Golf. Peter Alliss Thinks So

[Hobbit]

Equality hasn't, but I think the way some clubs have implemented it has. I know of a couple of clubs that have lost ladies because of the increase in fees... if only the club had created another catagory for those that were happy to play Tuesday afternoons for a toasted teacake and a pot of tea.

My club is equal fees, equal access. If you pay for 7 day access you get to play in all the comps. All are mixed - it works far better than some thought it would.

 

[Tashyboy]

Role models, seeing women in golf clubs that are not of pensionable age, more coverage of women's golf in magazines, especially the young female golfers with a personality like Charlie Hull, long term change in image from a game for mostly old men, club houses more welcoming for families?

Totally agree with you hacker but even in golf monthly mag, women's coverage is minimal to say the least. Im not sure that more coverage of women's golf is the way forward, but mixed golf. Might get more women watching and more men being a bit more tolerable of the women's game.

 

[Face breaker]

I think the women get the better deal at our club (you should see their locker room compared to the men's) and we tend to see quite a few wandering around the course most days and if not playing then it's brunch/lunch/afternoon tea although I do have to say most of them are well into their retirement, I'm not to sure about the fee's side of it though, not much in the way of younger women apart from one that seems to be there all day every day (obviously rich) and I've yet to see much of it but apparently we do have a junior contingency !...:thup:

 

[FairwayDodger]

This is where the problem lies. Untill there is mixed medals, its not the same product.

Kaz, do you think less women would play in medals if there was a chance they were out with 2 guys? I personally think that's how it should be, pick your time slot and drawn.

Probably, yes.

One of my clubs has totally mixed medals but you are able to enter with partners rather than an open draw. Trouble is there are so few women that many of the guys don't even realise the comps are mixed until I turn up on the first tee!

 

[Fyldewhite]

Prefer to turn this one around because it avoids the "Saturday Comps" issue........ If women were being offered reduced rate golf in return for not playing Saturdays or weekends or whatever that's fine even with the equality act.....so long as the same deal is also on offer for men, not all of whom want to play in weekend competitions. This is in effect just as good an example of what the equality act was meant to achieve. What many clubs were afraid of though was the possibility that subs income would suddenly drop with half their male members going for the cheaper option and implemented full membership all round. Very short sighted and no doubt had an impact along the lines dear old Mr Alliss and Co are implying. Looking at the numbers quoted though there's hardly a massive difference between the drop for either sex which suggests it's not as simple as that Peter!

Personally, I don't think mixed comps are the answer, and indeed the equality act recognises that sports can be separately run. All that's required is 7 day a week access to the course for all full members. Can be a problem on Saturdays obviously but with a bit of give and take I'm sure most clubs could come up with a workable policy.

So, no, I don't think equality has harmed women's golf. But some (perhaps many) clubs implementation of it's requirements may have had an impact.

 

[IanG]

For our mixed medals the 'draw' often pairs women together within their chosen 1 hr slot, in a similar fashion to how men of similar handicaps often find themselves paired together. So draw is really a Secretary's Shuffle. Seems to work ok.

 

[azazel]

My club is equal fees, equal access. If you pay for 7 day access you get to play in all the comps. All are mixed - it works far better than some thought it would.

Are these mixed comps played off the same tees?

 

[IanG]

Are these mixed comps played off the same tees?

Nope, and the competition handicaps are adjusted to reflect the difference in SSS between the Ladies and Gents setups. Seems to work out fine, but as discussed on an earlier thread the distinction of Ladies and Gents tees is a bit archaic and should be changed to a gender neutral more equitable one. (equitable to the shorter hitting gent that is )

 

[azazel]

Nope, and the competition handicaps are adjusted to reflect the difference in SSS between the Ladies and Gents setups. Seems to work out fine, but as discussed on an earlier thread the distinction of Ladies and Gents tees is a bit archaic and should be changed to a gender neutral more equitable one. (equitable to the shorter hitting gent that is )

Sounds quite complicated. Equitable tees has to be the sensible solution for mixed comps.

 

[Stub]

The ladies at our club pay the same fees but have superior access to the course. Last week the first tee was booked for 2 hours for a ladies competition but we timed the frequency of starting groups...average 18 minutes apart for the time we watched from the clubhouse!

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Nope, and the competition handicaps are adjusted to reflect the difference in SSS between the Ladies and Gents setups. Seems to work out fine, but as discussed on an earlier thread the distinction of Ladies and Gents tees is a bit archaic and should be changed to a gender neutral more equitable one. (equitable to the shorter hitting gent that is )

Would be nice to see different tees graded for both men and women, with guidelines of which tee to play off, depending on how far you drive (taking forum distances into account)

 

[brendy]

How will it work allowing more members to book on a Saturday (main mens comp day in NI) when it is already over subscribed? Our place has just started a working party to look into the equality aspects.
I fear our club will lose a fair few members because of any change in current setup. For info, Tuesdays is ladies day and women members can also book after 2.30pm on Saturdays (rest of the week is non restricted to male nor female members/visitors).

 

[FairwayDodger]

How will it work allowing more members to book on a Saturday (main mens comp day in NI) when it is already over subscribed? Our place has just started a working party to look into the equality aspects.
I fear our club will lose a fair few members because of any change in current setup. For info, Tuesdays is ladies day and women members can also book after 2.30pm on Saturdays (rest of the week is non restricted to male nor female members/visitors).

Just means there will be more demand for the Saturday morning spots. Why shouldn't women play then? It is 2015, you know, most of us work too?

And, of course, why shouldn't men play on Tuesday if that's what suits them?

The whole way golf clubs deal with different genders, even in clubs that reckon they are already "equal" is a joke in this day and age. It's been said, but clubs need to get a blend of gender-neutral 5 day, 7 day, pay as you play etc type deals to suit the modern consumer rather than pander to the prejudices of geriatric men who resent the fact that they can't have it all their own way any more.

 

[FairwayDodger]

The ladies at our club pay the same fees but have superior access to the course. Last week the first tee was booked for 2 hours for a ladies competition but we timed the frequency of starting groups...average 18 minutes apart for the time we watched from the clubhouse!

I very much doubt it.

 

[NWJocko]

How will it work allowing more members to book on a Saturday (main mens comp day in NI) when it is already over subscribed? Our place has just started a working party to look into the equality aspects.
I fear our club will lose a fair few members because of any change in current setup. For info, Tuesdays is ladies day and women members can also book after 2.30pm on Saturdays (rest of the week is non restricted to male nor female members/visitors).

Was thinking about this as our comps are oversubscribed every Saturday.

Is it within the rules to run a comp over 2 days? 1 way around it could be to split the comp (men's and women's) over Saturday and Sunday so you still have the same amount of available times but the course is accessible to all sections of the membership?

 

[FairwayDodger]

Was thinking about this as our comps are oversubscribed every Saturday.

Is it within the rules to run a comp over 2 days? 1 way around it could be to split the comp (men's and women's) over Saturday and Sunday so you still have the same amount of available times but the course is accessible to all sections of the membership?

Good idea, this is exactly how most clubs seem to run their women's medals at the moment, I haven't yet heard of one doing the same with the men.

 

[NWJocko]

Good idea, this is exactly how most clubs seem to run their women's medals at the moment, I haven't yet heard of one doing the same with the men.

I assume you can run one comp over 2 days for CSS etc?

I don't know if it is a burning issue at our club just now but we have large men and lady sections so was wondering how you could make it work.

With the amount of times needed the course should also still be available in the afternoon for anyone wanting to play socially aswell.

One way I could see it working anyway that is "fair" to all.

 

[IanG]

Slightly off topic - but does anyone know if the slope handicapping system is gender-neutral or does it still have separate ratings for gents and ladies ?? ....and yes the first 5 mins of google searching failed to pop the answer up for me.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I assume you can run one comp over 2 days for CSS etc?

I don't know if it is a burning issue at our club just now but we have large men and lady sections so was wondering how you could make it work.

With the amount of times needed the course should also still be available in the afternoon for anyone wanting to play socially aswell.

One way I could see it working anyway that is "fair" to all.

You get a separate CSS for each day but the results can be combined to otherwise run the event as a single competition.

 

[NWJocko]

You get a separate CSS for each day but the results can be combined to otherwise run the event as a single competition.

Good, wasn't sure and was the only obstacle I could see in my head!

To be honest that would probably suit me aswell as sometimes I can't make a comp one weekend etc so would have more opportunity to enter.