Has Equality Harmed Womens Golf. Peter Alliss Thinks So
- Thread starter GB72
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D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
It's a very interesting subject, I don't believe women were actually consulted on the subject? I know plenty were happy to pay a reduced fee and have slightly limited access to the course whilst others are happy to pay the same as men.
What do the ladies on here think about it?
What do the ladies on here think about it?
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Just old fashioned views.
Dellboy
Challenge Tour Pro
Old fashioned views but I think its right all players, men or women should pay the same amount.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
For the same product.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
The article sounds like 2 old dodderes out of touch with society wittering on. Surprised they didn't bemoan the end of rationing as well.
Women's PGA founder and former Women's Open champion Vivien Saunders said she agreed with Alliss's comments. "The age group under 50 are fine. A lot more independent women have their own money," the 68-year-old told BBC Radio 5 live."It's the women over 60. A lot of them, their husband controls the finances, they've never worked, and they are the ones who are dropping out of the game.
This kind of sums it up to me really. As whilst you have to ensure the current members are fine, you have to attract the future generations for the game to progress, which in this case are those young whippersnappers under the age of 50 with their fancy modern ways and beliefs in things like equality and having your own money. So as I said, old doderers wittering on about the good old days. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it's no way to ensure the future of a sport.
Women's PGA founder and former Women's Open champion Vivien Saunders said she agreed with Alliss's comments. "The age group under 50 are fine. A lot more independent women have their own money," the 68-year-old told BBC Radio 5 live."It's the women over 60. A lot of them, their husband controls the finances, they've never worked, and they are the ones who are dropping out of the game.
This kind of sums it up to me really. As whilst you have to ensure the current members are fine, you have to attract the future generations for the game to progress, which in this case are those young whippersnappers under the age of 50 with their fancy modern ways and beliefs in things like equality and having your own money. So as I said, old doderers wittering on about the good old days. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it's no way to ensure the future of a sport.
I understand what he is saying but it is based on old fashioned views of women not working and so having all mid week to play golf. Working women want to play golf at weekends though, same as me, and that means 7 day membership and 7 day costs. Paying a reduced fee would be welcomed by all so no surprise to hear the removal of that got a thumbs down.
If you want to offer a 5 day membership then it should be to all members, not just ladies. Equality works both ways.
Let's give Peter a little slack here. His comments were not outlandish and there is some logic in his argument. It does relate to older golfers and lets face it, he is old. It relates to his era and the people he will speak to in the bar after a round.
If you want to offer a 5 day membership then it should be to all members, not just ladies. Equality works both ways.
Let's give Peter a little slack here. His comments were not outlandish and there is some logic in his argument. It does relate to older golfers and lets face it, he is old. It relates to his era and the people he will speak to in the bar after a round.
Duckster
Tour Rookie
Couple of questions on this theme as I genuinely don't know.
How many "Women Only" clubs are there? I know there are a few in Scotland.
Plus, if you look at Formby. Can women join Formby golf club or do they have to join Formby ladies?
How many "Women Only" clubs are there? I know there are a few in Scotland.
Plus, if you look at Formby. Can women join Formby golf club or do they have to join Formby ladies?
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
It is an interesting situation.
My current club has limited access for the ladies, but they pay less and have specific days for their comp's (tues & thurs). Essentially they can't play Saturdays during the men's comp' times.
They voted for this and are mostly happy. The lady members are mostly more elderly, like those Alliss mentions.
The problem with this situation, it restricts younger/working lady members from joining.
My previous club everyone paid the same for each membership type. Ladies comp's took place alongside the men's, times were on first come first served. Here, the younger members are happier but the older ladies not so, as they didn't want to play when the course is busy and they don't want to pay full fees. So the ladies section split into 2 factions (Thursday ladies and Saturday ladies) with all sorts of problems organising things such as Open's, captains day etc where the 5/6 day members end up having to pay a green fee to take part.
It's very much Horses for Courses, and not everyone will be pleased with the final decision. But at least by having a vote it gave the right to the majority at that time.
My current club has limited access for the ladies, but they pay less and have specific days for their comp's (tues & thurs). Essentially they can't play Saturdays during the men's comp' times.
They voted for this and are mostly happy. The lady members are mostly more elderly, like those Alliss mentions.
The problem with this situation, it restricts younger/working lady members from joining.
My previous club everyone paid the same for each membership type. Ladies comp's took place alongside the men's, times were on first come first served. Here, the younger members are happier but the older ladies not so, as they didn't want to play when the course is busy and they don't want to pay full fees. So the ladies section split into 2 factions (Thursday ladies and Saturday ladies) with all sorts of problems organising things such as Open's, captains day etc where the 5/6 day members end up having to pay a green fee to take part.
It's very much Horses for Courses, and not everyone will be pleased with the final decision. But at least by having a vote it gave the right to the majority at that time.
Foxholer
Blackballed
He reckons some 150K members have been lost from Women's Golf.
How many is the Male membership down by?
I'm certain that there would have been quite a few Women who decided that Equal Pay for (occasionally better than) Equal Access was not to their liking. But some clubs have actually been pretty canny about retaining such members. Those that haven't bothered only have themselves to blame when their subscription income is significantly down!
How many is the Male membership down by?
I'm certain that there would have been quite a few Women who decided that Equal Pay for (occasionally better than) Equal Access was not to their liking. But some clubs have actually been pretty canny about retaining such members. Those that haven't bothered only have themselves to blame when their subscription income is significantly down!
BoadieBroadus
Q-School Graduate
this entire article is riddled with old fashioned / outmoded views. like a bad jimmy tarbuck golf joke book.
i don't doubt that there are over 60's who believe this to be true, but the game is struggling because its seen as a game where the over 60's views have far too much sway.
i don't doubt that there are over 60's who believe this to be true, but the game is struggling because its seen as a game where the over 60's views have far too much sway.
Keeno
Challenge Tour Pro
This is where the problem lies. Untill there is mixed medals, its not the same product.
Kaz, do you think less women would play in medals if there was a chance they were out with 2 guys? I personally think that's how it should be, pick your time slot and drawn.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
A shame that Alliss has to get involved and project an outdated stereotypical point of view. It's a shame that women numbers have dropped although I would argue that men's figures have declined too and to put it all at the door of having to pay the same fees as men is wrong
louise_a
Money List Winner
I play at a club that still has reduced rates for women, I personally am quite happy with it, apart from Thursday being ladies comp day we play 7 or 8 board comps on either Saturday or Sunday.
I also agree that while it is fine for me it is unfair on ladies who work, we do have several and they tend to finish early on Thursdays to play in the weekly comps. I do not know whether they would rather have equal fees and equal access with the men.
The main worry for me is that if we do go to for equality, what would happen on Saturdays when there is already not enough tee times for all the men who wants to play in the comp.
I also agree that while it is fine for me it is unfair on ladies who work, we do have several and they tend to finish early on Thursdays to play in the weekly comps. I do not know whether they would rather have equal fees and equal access with the men.
The main worry for me is that if we do go to for equality, what would happen on Saturdays when there is already not enough tee times for all the men who wants to play in the comp.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
how many younger women players would play golf or look into playing golf it was ruled by the roost of 60 odd year old women who were set in there ways. Probably about as many who are in the WI. At our weekend womens Comp there were four in it.about 100 plus men played.
equality appears to have created a problem but I think it could be short term. Our club won the runners up in the golf mark comp for promoting golf last year for the younger players, and won the club of the year award for Notts. But how do you encourage women to get into golf. I would not know where to start.
any suggestions.
how many younger women players would play golf or look into playing golf it was ruled by the roost of 60 odd year old women who were set in there ways. Probably about as many who are in the WI. At our weekend womens Comp there were four in it.about 100 plus men played.
equality appears to have created a problem but I think it could be short term. Our club won the runners up in the golf mark comp for promoting golf last year for the younger players, and won the club of the year award for Notts. But how do you encourage women to get into golf. I would not know where to start.
any suggestions.
bluewolf
Money List Winner
I think that what I'm struggling with here is that equality appears to be a "choice". You can't choose Equality when it suits, then bemoan it when it doesn't surely?
FWIW, in my opinion, every club should have equal fees for the same product...
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Interesting point and I agree that the age of the female membership does seem a little tilted towards the older end of the spectrum. That I think is a lot to do with the fact many do have the time and chance to play midweek. My club is the same as many others although we do have a lot of younger members starting to come through and using the place at midweek so perhaps we are slowly moving the right way
louise_a
Money List Winner
You are correct of course, however regarding point 2 at our club it is not the same product, we do also have 5 day membership for the men, and there is a midweek comp for them as well as the Saturday comp.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Role models, seeing women in golf clubs that are not of pensionable age, more coverage of women's golf in magazines, especially the young female golfers with a personality like Charlie Hull, long term change in image from a game for mostly old men, club houses more welcoming for families?
colint
Tour Rookie
Typical out dated rubbish from Allis, just like most of his commentary where he thinks every shot should be a bump and run and people care who the local pro was 70 years ago
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