Has environmental evangelism replaced the religious envagelism?

[Bunkermagnet]

I suppose some may get emotional about the clean air argument, especially if they have lost a family member/loved one whos death was linked to air pollution.
If you were in their position, wouldn't you want cleaner air, especially as the population continues to rise so will the pollution.

Problem I see is that the clean air pushers have got their way with the anti diesel lobby, but since we have demonised diesel our CO2 output has risen for the first time, and that is put primarily on the decline of (cleaner) diesel cars and people returning to petrol and electric. So we have world issues overtaken by local issues.

 

[bobmac]

Sorry - that statement suggests a misunderstanding of Christian denominations - and that different Christian denominations can have significantly different beliefs and practices - albeit all linked by the common denominator of Christ (rather goes with the Christian territory).

What you list might apply to Roman Catholicism (of which I know not a lot) - or maybe in part to Anglicanism (again of which I know not a lot) - but in my denomination of what you list I recognise the words worship, prayer and give. In some part worship and prayer are the one and same thing - just add in a good dose of singing and giving (in a whole variety of ways and means) as best I can, on top of prayer, and that's worship.

Have your own beliefs about religion and Christianity - but please respect that what is for one denomination is so very much not for all.

As it happens - what you list would for me - be closer to the demands of environmental evangelism than for any thing to do with my relgious beliefs

I'm not disrespecting your beliefs, I'm quoting your bible

Proverbs 15:33
John 4:24
Proverbs 3:9
John 5:24

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Can we move away from the religious stuff, thread is about environmental issues

Ta muchly

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm not disrespecting your beliefs, I'm quoting your bible

Proverbs 15:33
John 4:24
Proverbs 3:9
John 5:24

Quote away. It's not my bible - it's the Bible. Different denominations interpret the Bible - especially the old testament - in very different ways.

Some denominations even consider what the Bible says in the context of what is understood and acceptable today - shock, horror

And since you have an interest. My denomination considers, not that 'the Bible' is the authority, but that 'God's Word in the Bible' is what we should look to understand. I read and interpret with the help of the Holy Spirit - and it is in this way of reading that those of my denomination believe offers our best chance of working out what our God wants of and for us.

It may disappoint some to find out that not all Christians believe every word in the Bible literally - and that we are absolutely comfortable that we don't have to - and some of us positively reject literal understanding of some of what is written - especially some of what is written in the books of 'the law' of the Old Testament - that which the Jewish faith call the Torah.

And since you lead with it. In my current denomination as well as that in which I was brought up in - there is absolutely NO requirement to be in fear the Lord. In fact the opposite is true.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

May I refer EVERYONE to Post 23

This is now not a request.

 

[SocketRocket]

Climate change is fuelled (excuse the pun) by one thing— population growth, 6 billion humans and growing to 7 billion shortly.

We either stop breeding, have a nuclear war or a couple of plagues to reduce the population by a huge amount.

Grim

^^^^ This with brass knobs on.

 

[Hitdaball]

No-one can deny that the climate is changing, but the debate is - are we speeding up climate change or is it just the earth going through is natural fluctuations?

That’s not a debate the scientific community is having, they reached a consensus on that many years ago.

 

[bobmac]

Problem I see is that the clean air pushers have got their way with the anti diesel lobby, but since we have demonised diesel our CO2 output has risen for the first time, and that is put primarily on the decline of (cleaner) diesel cars and people returning to petrol and electric. So we have world issues overtaken by local issues.

I'd like to see where you got that information please.
I don't think anyone can deny that the religious beliefs of the truck owner has little or no affect on my life. However, the toxic fumes that comes out of the back of the lorry do.

Climate change is fuelled (excuse the pun) by one thing— population growth, 6 billion humans and growing to 7 billion shortly.

We either stop breeding, have a nuclear war or a couple of plagues to reduce the population by a huge amount.

Grim

I agree, as the population continues to grow, so does the air pollution, however I think there is another solution.
Rather than a nuclear war or a couple of plagues or indeed another global flood would indeed reduce the population, I think that changing the way we use energy would be the more humane way to improve the air quality and would help prevent the unnecessary deaths in the world.

From the World Health Orginisation..........

''In 2016, air pollution has caused 7 million deaths globally, including ambient and household air pollution''
https://www.who.int/airpollution/NCD_AP_2_pager_May_2018_v3.pdf?ua=1

It's a problem that will only get worse unless we do something and fortunately, lots of people are.
While some may indeed think it's grimm, I believe that when people catch up with greener alternatives to diesel, petrol, coal, fraking and oil, the next generations will benefit from cleaner air.

Deaths caused by Brexit...........0
Deaths caused by air pollution .......7 million
Where are your priorities when it comes to the health of your children and your childrens children.
Forget Brexit, go electric.

Renewable energy is clean, everlasting and is the cheapest energy source we have, and that is based on SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.

 

[Griffsters]

Its a nightmare all this climate guff honestly.

 

[Tashyboy]

I don't just think it's climate change where people are pushy. This forum being the classic example. I understand people have differing opinions. But at times people, and I mean both on here and in general just don't know how to shut up and listen and let it sink in. Example, Brexit. In this day and age of social media, everything is easy to copy and paste. It seems that people are losing the ability to think for themselves and are quite happy to quote extremists.
Re climate change, for Tashyboys tuppence worth, it's happening. Think I will be dead by a generation before people realise it has gone to far.

 

[IanM]

............trying to kill people flying in or out of Heathrow now. Yep, maybe that's a smidge too far.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Electirc...oops
Doesn't look to good, nor reflect well for the electric industry or the push towards electirc.

 

[bobmac]

Electirc...oops
Doesn't look to good, nor reflect well for the electric industry or the push towards electirc.

This was news to me so I did some research.
SF6 was first used in 1953 so not new.
If it leaks it's not good news. (The same could be said about gas, oil, petrol, nuclear energy)
Scientists have been aware of this and have been working hard to find an alternative and it seems they have been successful

''Scottish Power Renewables has installed one of world's biggest wind farms where the turbines will be free of SF6 gas''.

So maybe not quite a big 'oops' after all.

Here's a question for everyone .........

If your child/grandchild is walking alongside a busy road everyday to school, would you rather a diesel bus belching carbon monoxide drives slowly by or an electric bus with 0 emissions?

 

[SocketRocket]

This was news to me so I did some research.
SF6 was first used in 1953 so not new.
If it leaks it's not good news. (The same could be said about gas, oil, petrol, nuclear energy)
Scientists have been aware of this and have been working hard to find an alternative and it seems they have been successful

''Scottish Power Renewables has installed one of world's biggest wind farms where the turbines will be free of SF6 gas''.

So maybe not quite a big 'oops' after all.

Here's a question for everyone .........

If your child/grandchild is walking alongside a busy road everyday to school, would you rather a diesel bus belching carbon monoxide drives slowly by or an electric bus with 0 emissions?

View attachment 28205

Kids walking to school 😱

 

[bobmac]

Kids walking to school 😱

That's all you can say about children dying from air pollution?
Far better off driving them to school in a 3 ton 4x4 diesel with nitrous oxide pouring out the back end.
That will help

 

[Cherry13]

Interested to hear peoples thoughts on the marches today?

I think it’s fantastic, and I’m strongly behind it. My wife and I do our best to reduce plastic in particular, we even run a small Facebook page which shares ideas for reducing plastic consumption. The amount of plastic still in use which is unnecessary is unbelievable, and in America it was eye watering (apples individually wrapped in cling film etc).

We often ‘shame’ companies on twitter for unnecessary usage as well, and it’s very clearly a topic that drives strong opinions as we see from the responses.

As for the recent holiday in America, we landed back home today and we discussed before going how we can offset the emissions. I must be honest and say I’m not convinced by that as an action. It feels like a privileged ‘money wash’ for something that was ultimately a luxury break. We’ll discuss it further though and explore the potions properly because know one I’ve seen who does it is particularly reputable so far (limited research).

 

[Hobbit]

@Cherry. The march highlights the passion of the argument but I'm not sure they are effective. That's not something we'll ever know. How do you gauge the impact on the world's decision makers? Does it educate the masses? It will do so for some, and some won't care. Do the "don't cares" need to be educated? Trying might be a lot more effort than its worth, and distract the efforts from where they have the most impact - bit like the 80-20 rule. But, equally, those that it (newly) resonates with might go on to reduce their global footprint - maybe small steps, a bit like the Sky Cycling team's incremental improvements. Its an exponential curve but the effort has to be focused in the right areas.

On a personal level, seeing and hearing adults talk about it only resonated to the extent I've heard it before, and the vast majority of it will be reasonably accurate. What I didn't like was seeing and hearing brainwashed kids talking like adults. How do they fully understand what they've heard? When do they get to enjoy their childhood? How do they rationalise some of the frightening things they've heard? Do they have nightmares about it? Was it right to put them in front of cameras? I'm all for protecting them by addressing the issues but I'm against exposing them to the arguments till they're old enough to rationalise those arguments. Talk to them about it, yes but to expose them to the march and the media, no it was too soon for some of them. Let them play and enjoy life, and then let them take up the banner when the generation before them has to put it down.

On the offsetting of the emissions; sorry but that does seem a bit of a champagne socialist sop. Once the emission is out there it can't be taken back. the offsetting might balance an already out of kilter emission level to the level it was before you left but it doesn't reduce it. And that emission could do some damage before it is reduced back down. The plane will fly whether you are on it or not. But it won't fly when not enough people are there to make it economical. And if flying isn't getting done then where is the need or investment to improve the efficiencies required to reduce emissions.

Just my simple thoughts...

 

[robinthehood]

Climate change is fuelled (excuse the pun) by one thing— population growth, 6 billion humans and growing to 7 billion shortly.

We either stop breeding, have a nuclear war or a couple of plagues to reduce the population by a huge amount.

Grim

And if you can get some of those billions to make small changes, then that can really make a difference.
Sadly too many people think it's someone else's problem to fix.

 

[Cherry13]

@Hobbit as ever an insightful and thought provoking post. Been mulling a few points over for a few days before responding.

I’ve went backward and forward on your second paragraph with regards to young kids being exposed to much too young, I don’t know if I’ve yet formed a solid opinion on whether I agree with you or not, but what I would say is that the current generation of young teenagers is generally very engaged and articulate. They also seem to care greatly about social issues and want to do something about them. Your point about them being able to rationalise an argument and contextualise it is very interesting and probably the area I’m stuck on most. On the one hand I think they have more access to data/news/insight than any generation ever beforehand, but I think they are also more susceptible to echo chambers and misinformation.
The other thing I’ll add to this point, and this is a bit of a generalisation, but to some ‘protesting’ is play... it’s getting out on social media and making statements, building a profile and being known for something. I see lots of examples in my work of this, and although it’s usually good natured it can be dangerous when it gets competitive.

On your first paragraph. This is easier for me. I’m a big believer in big business, they usually have the answer or will create the answer and consumers will then follow. This is a bigger challenge than ever before because it’s worldwide, but I strongly believe that an Amazon/Walmart type size org will crack this and then others will HAVE to follow.
I believe it will happen in auto within the next five years, I believe Nissan think the qahqai might be the one for them that cracks it, and will show how strong and viable the market can be. Here’s hoping anyway.

Lastly, re offsetting. My wife and I discussed it again, and she really does have her doubts. Both about the orgs that do it, and the effect it has. Like you say it’s kind of done already.
We’re also sadly both of the opinion that it’s actually already too late as well, just in general all over the world. There’s too much plastic, too much waste, too much emissions, too much nuclear waste, too much everything unfortunately and I fear now that there is no way of reversing it all.

Sorry to end on such a dour note...

 

[bobmac]

It's clear to me that the electric/hydrogen cars are the future so it saddens me to see car manufacturers still bringing out new petrol and diesel cars.
And in 5-10 years time, they will still be trying to sell off these petrol and diesel cars that they are making today.