Haotong Li penalty

Orikoru said:
What do you mean? Are you not passionate about golf? I thought that's why we were here. When someone gets punished unfairly you find it better to just brush that under the carpet and ignore it? Let them carry on punishing people on a whim, without analysing the video evidence that we all have at our disposal in this day and age?
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When was someone punished on a whim ?

Referees at these events are there to ensure the rules are enforced by all the players and if they see a rule break they will act on it accordingly - just because you don’t like it or think it’s unfair doesn’t mean that’s the case . The rule brought in is a very good , when it was announced there didn’t seem to be any negatives against it - and by the letter of the law Li’s Caddy was deemed to be in a position he is not allowed to be when the player took his stance to address the ball - it’s very marginal but it’s the rule and they are fair for all.
 
Orikoru said:
What do you mean? Are you not passionate about golf? I thought that's why we were here. When someone gets punished unfairly you find it better to just brush that under the carpet and ignore it? Let them carry on punishing people on a whim, without analysing the video evidence that we all have at our disposal in this day and age?
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Passion and emotion aren't the same thing.

Why do you think he has been punished unfairly? The rule states that "once the player begins taking a stance for the stroke, and until the stroke is made, the player’s caddie must not deliberately stand on or close to an extension of the line of play behind the ball for any reason" the video evidence seems absolutely clear that the caddie is in such a position when the player begins taking his stance (not takes his stance completes his stance but begins taking his stance).

They would only have applied such a penalty on the basis of reviewing all available evidence.

The unfortunate element here is that the player was clearly hurrying to clear the way for the tournament winner to complete his round - however it's the implicit fairness of the rules that mean that it cannot be taken into account! Not applying a penalty is also fundamentally unfair to the field.
 
Orikoru said:
What do you mean? Are you not passionate about golf? I thought that's why we were here. When someone gets punished unfairly you find it better to just brush that under the carpet and ignore it? Let them carry on punishing people on a whim, without analysing the video evidence that we all have at our disposal in this day and age?
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Youre Proving my point... who's punishing anyone on a whim? There's a new rule and he fell foul of it, you really seem to struggle with the whole concept and get emotionally tangled in whether it's fair and if it gained anyone an advantage.
 
I also think a top pro golfer who needs lining up from that distance has alignment problems.
Harsh or not he needs to address that.
Just to take any chance of this happening again.
 
robinthehood said:
Youre Proving my point... who's punishing anyone on a whim? There's a new rule and he fell foul of it, you really seem to struggle with the whole concept and get emotionally tangled in whether it's fair and if it gained anyone an advantage.
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So, again, you don't believe the rules should be fair?? Seems like a weird viewpoint to me.
 
Orikoru said:
So, again, you don't believe the rules should be fair?? Seems like a weird viewpoint to me.
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What are you on about? Explain how they not fair, I don't see anything unfair in what happened here . The game was rife with golfers getting lined up by their caddies and the ruling bodies rightly clamped down on it.
 
robinthehood said:
What are you on about? Explain how they not fair, I don't see anything unfair in what happened here . The game was rife with golfers getting lined up by their caddies and the ruling bodies rightly clamped down on it.
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Every time I question a rule, you moan at me for expecting the rules to be fair. So obviously you don't believe that they should be. I find that strange.
 
Orikoru said:
Every time I question a rule, you moan at me for expecting the rules to be fair. So obviously you don't believe that they should be. I find that strange.
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You keep saying they are not fair. .. but fail to explain why . Please don't take it as an insult but from what I have read your grasp of the rules is actually pretty poor and it forces you in to these knee jerk reactions
 
robinthehood said:
You keep saying they are not fair. .. but fail to explain why . Please don't take it as an insult but from what I have read your grasp of the rules is actually pretty poor and it forces you in to these knee jerk reactions
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It's not fair to punish someone with a two shot penalty when video evidence shows that he didn't even break the rule. The caddy is moving away as he puts his first foot down. Simple as.
 
Orikoru said:
It's not fair to punish someone with a two shot penalty when video evidence shows that he didn't even break the rule. The caddy is moving away as he puts his first foot down. Simple as.
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Sorry but video evidence shows by the letter of the law he did break a rule - marginal it maybe and there is every chance it didn’t help the player at all but the rule was broken because the caddy was in the players line when the player went to take his stance - it maybe harsh and as the statement by the ET says it’s wrong they have no leeway in regards the rules - letter of the law he broke the rule unintentionally
 
fundy said:
European Tour statement

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/news/newsid=365137.html

that just makes it worse I think, ET basically saying they have to apply the letter of the law even though in hindsight they dont want to
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Where do you get the hindsight bit from?

Basically they are saying that they correctly applied the rules but didn't like having to do it in this instance; let's see where things go from here but the concept of subjective assessment on such rules is a very slippery slope indeed.
 
I think this whole instance was an accident. As mentioned before, he was rushing to get it done for the leaders.

Unfortunately rules are rules. I’m sure he and others won’t do it again. By and large it’s a good rule though. Caddies offering an opinion is fair enough imo. But when it comes to playing the shot. The golfers should be capable.
 
It takes time to formulate a defence!

If such rules are going to be used on split second video evidence that’s a sad day for golf imo.
He is trying to get out of the leaders way by going out of turn ( assuming no ready golf on tour)
This caught his caddie out for 1/1000th of a second
The caddies on the move and Li only has one foot on the floor , he then shuffles his feet into place so we all need to know when your stance is starting.
In 4bbb does this go for your pp.?
 
The pros that do like their caddy to help with reads will most likely spend more time dithering over putts, confirming lines and ensuring the caddy is clear before lining up to take the putt.
 
Semantics at play. So I guess a player and his/her caddy can stand together on the 'line' of the put and discuss/decide on the 'line' or break for as long as it takes (allowing for time keeping) but if the player walks straight to his stance the caddy must have moved first. If the player were to have walked indirectly to his stance and the caddy then moved that might be OK?

Seems a little variable and dependent on whether officials/cameras were around.
 
drdel said:
Semantics at play. So I guess a player and his/her caddy can stand together on the 'line' of the put and discuss/decide on the 'line' or break for as long as it takes (allowing for time keeping) but if the player walks straight to his stance the caddy must have moved first. If the player were to have walked indirectly to his stance and the caddy then moved that might be OK?

Seems a little variable and dependent on whether officials/cameras were around.
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The referee would need to be in line surley (like a football Lino) to be sure he was in line, he will be running around the green.
If he is at any angle to player and caddie then he’s guessing.
 
Bit of a JOKE call but I guess they need to start the drama for the new rules asap. Caddie not allowed to read putts either might speed up play. infact ban caddies get the range finder out and move on !!! Jobs for the boys #Council
 
Imurg said:
So they must have deemed that the caddy was helping alignment as there's no penalty if they accidentally stand there.....
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The rule kicks in once the player begins taking a stance for the stroke. Nothing to do with giving advice on alignment
 
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