Handicap, which tees?

[SocketRocket]

I get a little confused with some of these comments.

Some people seem to be of the opinion you are not really playing proper golf unless you play off the white tees but courses are not all of the same length, the yellow tees on some courses are longer than the whites on others. You often find that the whites are not open for play or their is a tee box of the day in use to even out wear of the course. Some courses are very open with few bunkers or water hazards while others are full of them.

Surely SSS takes care of these differences and gives a target score that is reflective of the distance, difficulty and weather conditions on the day.

 

[Smiffy]

I get a little confused with some of these comments.

Some people seem to be of the opinion you are not really playing proper golf unless you play off the white tees but courses are not all of the same length, the yellow tees on some courses are longer than the whites on others. You often find that the whites are not open for play or their is a tee box of the day in use to even out wear of the course. Some courses are very open with few bunkers or water hazards while others are full of them.

Surely SSS takes care of these differences and gives a target score that is reflective of the distance, difficulty and weather conditions on the day.

Courses are designed off the back tees.
Yellow and red tees have been added as an afterthought

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Moogie
Your three yellow tee cards for handicap would be based on the yellow tee SSS [not the white]

Look on it as two totally different courses.

 

[Imurg]

Our Whites and Yellows are virtually the same.
6166 off the Whites
6078 off the Yellows

The 10th grows from 160 to 182 yards, the rest are no more than 5 yards difference so the choice of shot/club is identical.
SSS is the same as is Par.
I really don't know why they bother having 2 sets of tees.
When it comes to the use of tees, we only use the Whites for Comps. But as they're identical to the Yellows it's of no consequence.

 

[Foxholer]

Courses are designed off the back tees.
Yellow and red tees have been added as an afterthought

That would be very bad course design imo - and don't think you are correct.

One of my favourite courses, The Shire London, has 4 sets of tees and you can play off whichever you wish to play on any day. As it has its own peculiar weather conditions, the decision as to which tee to play on any day is made on the way to the first tee - and we are mainly single figure players. As our decision is based on the weather conditions, the hazards will be appropriate for the tees we are playing.

Other courses I play on have all tees available too. One course where I was a member explained it quite well saying that they wished the golfing experience to be an enjoyable one and selecting the correct tees to play off as part of that process.

As far as handicaps are concerned, I don't believe it matters too greatly. The variation on any day and different style of course/player when playing away from home has a far greater effect imo.

 

[Whereditgo]

Smiffy may have a point actually.

The whites are reserved solely for competitions at ours and the course does play significantly different from the whites to a yellow tee box that is set well forward. All the hazards are set up for the white tee's, bunkers that are reasonably comfortably carried off the yellows are set at around 250 yards carry off the whites which is a good carry (well maybe not for you Tim-Golfy-long types on here), especially into the wind.

Add to that the pressure of having 'a card in your hand' and it's easy to see how it's more difficult to play to handicap off the whites.

The club are currently adding yards and moving the 18th white tee box to get the SSS up 1 to match par, which will turn a pretty straight forward drive and gap wedge par 4 into a very different hole, a huge tree at about 180 yards will mean either laying up and a long iron in or a BIG draw and if it doesn't turn you'll be in the cabbage.

 

[daymond]

Play off the tee which suits your handicap. What's so special about white tees? Our whites are for competitions only winter and summer; stupid.

 

[RGDave]

If they play, say 10 medals a year and 30-40 bounce games, should a golfer's handicap not be calculated from the bounce games, surely a more accurate measure of their playing ability ?

Bounce games? No. Handicaps adjusted off Yellow tees in certain circumstances, yes.

I got my handicap playing off mats over the winter. They gave me 12. When the summer came, I experienced the full course off whites, and it's totally different. I played 20+ games off yellows in non-qualifying games, never played to 12 and yet never got any 0.1s.

Any handicap adjustments off Yellow should reflect the difference in the course for the average player, which for most people (at mine anyway) is 3-4 shots, not just the poxy "1" shot for SSS.

You could safely give all the players off yellow, playing to 15 (as an example) a handicap of 18.

 

[duncan mackie]

Smiffy may have a point actually.

The whites are reserved solely for competitions at ours and the course does play significantly different from the whites to a yellow tee box that is set well forward. All the hazards are set up for the white tee's, bunkers that are reasonably comfortably carried off the yellows are set at around 250 yards carry off the whites which is a good carry (well maybe not for you Tim-Golfy-long types on here), especially into the wind.

Add to that the pressure of having 'a card in your hand' and it's easy to see how it's more difficult to play to handicap off the whites.

The club are currently adding yards and moving the 18th white tee box to get the SSS up 1 to match par, which will turn a pretty straight forward drive and gap wedge par 4 into a very different hole, a huge tree at about 180 yards will mean either laying up and a long iron in or a BIG draw and if it doesn't turn you'll be in the cabbage.

you seem to be contradicting Smiffy's premise with your last paragraph.... and I am happy to take a bet with Smiffy that his course White tees weren't all there in 1895 either!

further, if you accept that not all classes of member hit the ball the same distances it makes even less sense, hazards positioned for male members simply wouldn't be in play for juniors, seniors or ladies. put another way, if you want the hazards to be in play for different categories of player you need different, appropriate, teeing areas.

 

[richart]

Members always play off the whites at my place. Just Societies that play off the yellows, unless they get special dispensation.

 

[Whereditgo]

you seem to be contradicting Smiffy's premise with your last paragraph.... and I am happy to take a bet with Smiffy that his course White tees weren't all there in 1895 either!

further, if you accept that not all classes of member hit the ball the same distances it makes even less sense, hazards positioned for male members simply wouldn't be in play for juniors, seniors or ladies. put another way, if you want the hazards to be in play for different categories of player you need different, appropriate, teeing areas.

I wasn't suggesting that all classes of members should play off the same tee, both the par and SSS are different off the red tee's for example.

 

[SocketRocket]

Why don't Ladies play off yellows in competition?

 

[Whereditgo]

Why don't Ladies play off yellows in competition?

I would imagine that most of the ladies could think of 850 reasons!

 

[MashieNiblick]

I agree that our course plays much easier off the yellows than off the whites. About 330 yads difference same par and SSS only one shot lower.

I know calculation of SSS has set rules but it seems strange that it works out that a scratch player would only be expected to score one shot better off the yellows than off the whites.

 

[CMAC]

Haven't read all the replies so apologies if this has been said already;

Don't the Americans count every game from every course? Medals and bounce games? That would give a more accurate and up to date handicap IMO.

 

[upsidedown]

Haven't read all the replies so apologies if this has been said already;

Don't the Americans count every game from every course? Medals and bounce games? That would give a more accurate and up to date handicap IMO.

+1

Not sure about the USA but that's how it works here, believe we both operate under the slope index system.

 

[moogie]

Why don't Ladies play off yellows in competition?

Good Point
Ladies Only have 1 set of tee markers -- Red
Gents -- Yellow ( social ) & White ( Comps )
So good point to bring up, as Ladies are playing Their Comp course socially too.......Gents CAN'T
Im Surprised some of the Equality Guys haven't thrown this back at some of their clubs and Committees.....??

 

[SocketRocket]

Good Point
Ladies Only have 1 set of tee markers -- Red
Gents -- Yellow ( social ) & White ( Comps )
So good point to bring up, as Ladies are playing Their Comp course socially too.......Gents CAN'T
Im Surprised some of the Equality Guys haven't thrown this back at some of their clubs and Committees.....??

Don't get me going! Why can Women wear liner socks, three quarter trousers, sleeveless tops, tops not tucked in. Men can't

 

[BTatHome]

Haven't read all the replies so apologies if this has been said already;

Don't the Americans count every game from every course? Medals and bounce games? That would give a more accurate and up to date handicap IMO.

I believe so, including those gimmes etc

It is often commented that US handicaps flatter the golfers much more by a couple shots.

 

[rosecott]

Ladies Only have 1 set of tee markers -- Red

Blues?