Handicap manipulation - how to address

Dunesman said:
You may be missing the point.
I am not arguing that form does not drift up and down for us. But even though form does not remain static, the question is still valid : what is the handicap variation for the base case of no form variation ?
That is a fundamental test of the system. Sure, on top of that, we have the nature of golf, human beings, how often we play or practice, etc.
If the system, with NO form change, is fundamentally unstable or erratic, and thus not refecting that very no change in form, then it is flawed, and stands no chance whatsoever of being meaningful and consistent when we then introduce an over lay of varying form, or gradual improvement as some one take to the game or practices, or declines through age or whatever reason.
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If handicaps over time do not reflect 'form', just what exactly is 'form'?
If they do, how many scores over what period of time?
 
Slab said:
Rumour Mill says different.... but it could be wrong
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I would be peeved if there was, as there has been no communication from EG to Counties in calls/meetings recently. Previously it has been often mentioned that there is a 4 year cycle.
 
Dunesman said:
Exactly, it doesnt.
I presume the authorities, or even club stats guys with access to the raw data could do it relatively easily, and model the handicap variation for no change in golf performance over a period of 50 or 100 rounds, for both old and new systems.

Take 'model' 0,10,20,30 handicappers. What is their range and distribution of scores. And develop their handicaps accorindingly with both systems.
I wonder what would be the lowest and highest handicap that each player would hit under both systems for exactly the same scores. The interesting points being what is the gap between each player, and, the span of each player under each.

Has the USGA or R&A published such or similar analysis does anyone know ?
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Dunesman said:
You may be missing the point.
I am not arguing that form does not drift up and down for us. But even though form does not remain static, the question is still valid : what is the handicap variation for the base case of no form variation ?
That is a fundamental test of the system. Sure, on top of that, we have the nature of golf, human beings, how often we play or practice, etc.
If the system, with NO form change, is fundamentally unstable or erratic, and thus not refecting that very no change in form, then it is flawed, and stands no chance whatsoever of being meaningful and consistent when we then introduce an over lay of varying form, or gradual improvement as some one take to the game or practices, or declines through age or whatever reason.
Click to expand...
You are lacing your posts with increasing quantities of meaningless word salad.
 
Slab said:
Does anyone have inside info on the rumoured 'updates' to WHS due in late March early April this year?
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WHS updates are done on a 4 year cycle, so the next update is not due until 2028.

However, there may be pending updates from 2024 that have yet to be implemented in some parts of the world; for example, Australia postponed implementing the PCC update until their software update (which itself has been delayed).
 
Dunesman said:
You may be missing the point.
I am not arguing that form does not drift up and down for us. But even though form does not remain static, the question is still valid : what is the handicap variation for the base case of no form variation ?
That is a fundamental test of the system. Sure, on top of that, we have the nature of golf, human beings, how often we play or practice, etc.
If the system, with NO form change, is fundamentally unstable or erratic, and thus not refecting that very no change in form, then it is flawed, and stands no chance whatsoever of being meaningful and consistent when we then introduce an over lay of varying form, or gradual improvement as some one take to the game or practices, or declines through age or whatever reason.
Click to expand...
If I saw a point to miss it would be a step forward. But there's scant chance of that happening faced with gobbledegook of which the bolded sentence is just one example . As to the idea that something called form which you say is numberless can be factored into golf handicapping which is inescapably a numerical system, I'm baffled. It's been said before - why not take your point to the R&A and USGA? They will have folk much cleverer than I with figures and are unlikely to miss the point. Then you could come back here and let us know how you got on.
 
With, I believe, only 15 or so courses in their federation there must be far better ways of checking for handicap manipulation than such a draconian measure, although the relevant newsletter is still on their website.
 
NCG's survey does show WHS blowing up in EG's face though. There is no hiding from the fact that it was a botched job with 30% of respondents saying it is worse than the old system. They cannot hide behind the fact that marginally more think it better - with such a high number thinking it a disimprovement, that is a shocking failure either in substance, communication, or both.
We are five years down the line now. It is not a question of letting the dust settle, or people just not liking change. This is a big thumbs down. And the shift of the narrative goes on with new metrics being touted by the authorities to try to paint it as a success "governing bodies reporting more scores being submitted, more general play scores being posted, and more players carrying World Handicap System indexes" which really is pathetic.
Are they going to listen to the 30% and act ?
 
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