Handicap Certificates

[USER1999]

To me, H/caps should only be adjusted from official comps. Your handicap isn't from the forward tees, with the pins in their usual positions, playing a nice comfotable round with your mates.
Your H/cap is off the blocks, with the tees in medal positions, with your name in the book (and all the stress that goes with it).
Any one can shoot the lights out mid week, but it is a lot harder come Sunday morning.

 

[Imurg]

Up to a point I agree Murph, but at my course SSS (which is what handicaps are determined by) is 4 below par off the yellows. Par 71 - Whites SSS 69, Yellows 67. And we need to get cut by at least a full shot from the yellows. So for a category 2 player like me to get cut off the yellows I have to shoot nett 5 under SSS = Nett 62 = 2 over par 73 Gross.

If I shoot a 73 gross I would expect to get cut and would be racked off If I didn't. Even 73 off the Reds is worth shouting about.

I am a member of a club but don't play many compys due to time. I do however play midweek, sometimes alone, sometimes with mates. 2 weeks ago I shot a low score on a weekday and got cut 1.2.

Your handicap should reflect your ability and if you play well it should come down - regardless of tee or status of the round. And certainly at my club the different SSS between tees helps to ensure that happens. Sure ,If you want to enter the bigger competions then you should have some Medal rounds under your belt but to just have your handicap based on Medal rounds doesn't always show a true ability.

 

[viscount17]

drawback with handicaps off the yellows is that they move. my course appears to have finally got around to re-measuring but only the red and white medal positions.

 

[RGuk]

drawback with handicaps off the yellows is that they move. my course appears to have finally got around to re-measuring but only the red and white medal positions.

Yes! Of course.

My argument, which seems to fall on deaf ears on this forum and with our esteemed secretary (who's a good guy)....is that cutting handicaps off yellows is rather dodgy ground. At ours the SSS of the yellows is 2 less than white. Some unusually easy holes off yellow are intimidatingly difficult of whites, I suspect there are plenty of members that would not like to get a cut off yellows.

What I'm on about is handicap increases off the yellows. New players with a new handicap really ought to be entitled to 0.1 after a bad round off yellows. If the comittee deams that NO comps off yellows can count in making your h'cap as accurate as possible, then how can they hand out rather low h'caps and then say "it'll soon creep up??"

I just want to play my game, hand in the cards and if I've had a shocker, get my 0.1.....yellows, reds, blues, whatever! If a member has played weekly for a year, never managed to make nett par/36 points, but has not played in the "white tee comps" and therefore been moved up or down, then how can the h'cap be correct.

 

[RGuk]

If I shoot a 73 gross I would expect to get cut and would be racked off If I didn't. Even 73 off the Reds is worth shouting about.

Well said. I'm going to add this stinker into the equation.
Two guys at our club have been playing weekly nine holes and coming in with 21,22, sometimes 23 points. 23 points OFF white tees, that's like an 18 h'cap playing to 8 over 18 holes.
These guys have been completely free to a) take the prize money and b) have no cut to their h'caps.
Unsurprisingly, they came 1st and 2nd in the NETT Club Champs and everyone APPLAUDED their success.
and me......well, I boycotted the event......a club that catagoricaly KNOWS a few guys are playing hot but ignores the signals......well, I don't need to eleborate do I.

 

[USER1999]

Isn't that what the xmas end of year h/cap review is all about.

But also, say the white tees are forwards, someone who only drives 200yards is playing say a driver and a 5 iron on a 350 yards par 4. If the whites are off the backs, suddenly it can be a driver 5 wood, which really guarantees a five not a four. Therefore, while they can burn it up if the course plays short, they are stuffed when the course plays long, and hence actually have the right h/cap off the back tees, and hence no need for a cut.

 

[DCB]

"Up to a point I agree Murph, but at my course SSS (which is what handicaps are determined by) is 4 below par off the yellows."

Are some of the softer par 4s off the yellows just realy long par 3s off the whites? I've seen several courses where this is the case. The measures course for the course rating has long 245yd par 3s which normally play as par4s off the yellows.

Handicap is really determined by the CSS which may be the same as SSS but can vary depending on how the field performs on the day.

 

[USER1999]

I don't know, as most of our midweek comps are non qualifying. Why? I don't know.
As you say, CSS should take the difficulty into account, but even so, it is harsh to cut a short hitter, regardless of CSS, if they then have no chance when playing the longer course.

 

[RGuk]

But also, say the white tees are forwards, someone who only drives 200yards is playing say a driver and a 5 iron on a 350 yards par 4. If the whites are off the backs, suddenly it can be a driver 5 wood, which really guarantees a five not a four. Therefore, while they can burn it up if the course plays short, they are stuffed when the course plays long, and hence actually have the right h/cap off the back tees, and hence no need for a cut.

Our whites don't get moved (other than 5 yards short or long). My h'cap was established off yellows (2 less SSS) and the best card off blues (winter tees - 3 less then SSS). My handicap would have been approx. 14 but I had a birdie and 4 pars on the back nine and therefore with a 39 back nine got 11.5 to be safe.

With hindsight, I should have gone for 9 straight bogeys and got my 14. The fours holes I par the most (almost every time out off yellow) have yielded 4 bogeys AT BEST off the whites. Two because you have to draw the drive off white (or face a huge 2nd) and two because I simply can't get home for GIR.

THEREFORE

In reference to your comment - off yellows I can play to 14, probably to 10 on a good day (off 12).
Off white, I'd be pleased with 14 or 15......Lads who frequently play below off yellow should NOT be cut, the h'cap is almost certainly correct for them....
For cuts - it should i.m.o. be totally on playing off the full-length course. This doesn't make increases after a poor performance off yellows unfair does it??

I think you CAN have it both ways.......don't cut off yellows unless a player shoots 5 or more under and allow increases off yellows if a player is absolutely nowhere near.

 

[redmike]

Where you planning on playing redmike? I live in Donegal and could meet up with you if you not gonna be too far away.

Ballyliffin, but I think it may be a bit beyond me now! My mums family are from the area and my dad has got a house there now. I remember when the clubhouse was a shack with a pool table and a fruit machine, then was rebuilt and was very nice before that one was knocked down too and the present one built. Ive only been playing golf a year and didnt realise how many changes the course has been through and how highly thought of the club is now. Only recently found out that they had the Irish Seniors Open there - including Woosnam, Torrance etc. So im now thinking i might not be up top it! Whereabouts in Donegal are you? Could you recomend any other cousres in Inishowen for a high handicapper?

 

[smange]

Hi redmike

I sent you a PM, easier than on forum to keep track.

Hope we can get a game.