Handicap allowance in matchplay

[Smiffy]

It wasn't your match.
It was against someone else completely. Honest

Apologies for the assumption then Bob.
It was only because you kept on about it in the bar afterwards I thought you were talking about Forest Pines
xxx

What if it was?

I have a feeling there'll be another time, another place and the right result.

I don't mind playing somewhere a bit more "open" to give you a better chance if you like mate.



Are you planning on going to Beau next May???

 

[bobmac]

Maybe

 

[Smiffy]

Maybe

Game on!!
Hope I'm off 14 by then.
Will give you another couple of reasons to moan (Holes 9 & 16)

 

[freddielong]

I am not suprised they are changeing this as it was one of the few aspects of handicapped club golf that was fair and you cannot have fair in club competitions

 

[sev112]

Handicap of 1 plays a handicap of 24
Both guys hit their tee shot into a bush, and need to claim it unplayable to move their ball back into play - that is 100% of teh 1 hanidicapper's allowance gone but only 4.5%(ish) of the guy off 24 .

Or another 2 players all square after 18 holes. Match goes to extra hole. Higher hanidcaapper gets shot on that hole and wins, and accordingly gets the benefit of a shot on 100% of teh extra holes.

And what on earth has "consistency" got to do with it - if higher handicappers are "inconsistent" then that means to me that they can play an awful lot better than their handicap than teh lower handicapper who, to quote CONGU, tend to play more often closer to their handicap.

Full handicap my ****

 

[JustOne]

Handicap of 1 plays a handicap of 24
Both guys hit their tee shot into a bush, and need to claim it unplayable to move their ball back into play - that is 100% of teh 1 hanidicapper's allowance gone but only 4.5%(ish) of the guy off 24 .

1 handicappers don't hit it into bushes, and even if he did it would only be the one hole lost. He'd probably be looking at minimum 10 decent birdie opportunities if he is on his game - hence the handicap. Anyone can have a bad day and lose, even high h/cap guys.

 

[evahakool]

Bobmac

Ive read alot of your posts and you do talk alot of sense, but to say a 25h/c will get 6 pars in a round is a bit optomistic imo.

If you took a average of say ten rounds between a cat. one player and a 25h/c the better player will nearly always come out on top thats why i think a full h/c is fairer.

 

[Imurg]

We had a matchplay a few weeks back. Around the turn (8-10) I parred all 3 holes - 2 x3's and a longish 4 - trouble is so did Fragger. From being 2 up I was now 1 down having parred 3 holes. Having to birdie for a half is not easy as I'm more of a par machine than a Birdiemeister.

In matchplay you really have to forget about both your strokeplay score and par and just try to beat (at least match) the score the other guy gets.

If you are a par machine then there's no shame in making 18 of them

Yeah I just love the thought of making 18 pars and still getting beat...

 

[bobmac]

To change the question slightly...

Why do you think the original rule was 3/4 handicap?

 

[Dodger]

To change the question slightly...

Why do you think the original rule was 3/4 handicap?

Cos it was right.

 

[Leftie]

To change the question slightly...

Why do you think the original rule was 3/4 handicap?

Because they didn't know better?

Because they hadn't consulted (or invented) statisticians at that time?

Is that a good enough reason to be on your list Bob? Is it? Is it?

 

[bobmac]

Is that a good enough reason to be on your list Bob? Is it? Is it?

Roger, you're in

 

[funkyfred]

Handicap of 1 plays a handicap of 24
Both guys hit their tee shot into a bush, and need to claim it unplayable to move their ball back into play - that is 100% of teh 1 hanidicapper's allowance gone but only 4.5%(ish) of the guy off 24 .

Or another 2 players all square after 18 holes. Match goes to extra hole. Higher hanidcaapper gets shot on that hole and wins, and accordingly gets the benefit of a shot on 100% of teh extra holes.

And what on earth has "consistency" got to do with it - if higher handicappers are "inconsistent" then that means to me that they can play an awful lot better than their handicap than teh lower handicapper who, to quote CONGU, tend to play more often closer to their handicap.

Full handicap my ****

OR

Like me in our Summer Knockout, I am (h/c 25) receiving 13 shots from my opponet and at the turn I am 3 down but I have a stableford score of 17.
End up getting beat 5 and 4 with a stableford score of 26 after 14 holes.

I quess it just wasn't my day.

 

[Fyldewhite]

To change the question slightly...

Why do you think the original rule was 3/4 handicap?

It was clearly to slant things in favour of lower handicappers. Now there is an argument that this is the right thing to do to encourage people to get lower etc but that's for another day. In terms of this I think the evidence is clear that the current system is fairer overall. Like the explanations say it is still slightly tilted in favour of the lower handcapper instead of being massively tilted in their favour. I repeat, we have not seen a sudden increase in high handicappers winning matchplay events. Yes, they do win the odd match these days but are generally not consistent enough to carry that through a tournament. Also, the low man now has to play well to win which is how it should be.

 

[evahakool]

We had a matchplay a few weeks back. Around the turn (8-10) I parred all 3 holes - 2 x3's and a longish 4 - trouble is so did Fragger. From being 2 up I was now 1 down having parred 3 holes. Having to birdie for a half is not easy as I'm more of a par machine than a Birdiemeister.

In matchplay you really have to forget about both your strokeplay score and par and just try to beat (at least match) the score the other guy gets.

If you are a par machine then there's no shame in making 18 of them

Yeah I just love the thought of making 18 pars and still getting beat...

Imurg i dont think you can judge this on one round.I would be interested to hear out of all the games you have played with Fragger this season who do you think would have won most if you were playing matchplay?

It amazes me that some lower h/cs still cant except the fact that statisticly they have a better chance of winning.

 

[Region3]

I'm not a low h/c but in the matchplay this year the lowest I played against was 1 lower than me.

I'm quite happy giving the higher h/c's all of their shots. As someone else said, a lot of the time they'll lose holes they shot on because of silly doubles and trebles.

One thing I'd like to change is where they get them.

In theory, if I play spot on to my handicap I'll bogey SI's 1 to 11.

In theory, a 15 h/c will bogey SI's 1 to 15.

I know that'll very rarely happen, but why don't I give the 15 h/c his shots on SI's 12 to 15, where I'm supposed to par and he's supposed to bogey?

 

[MashieNiblick]

One thing I'd like to change is where they get them.

In theory, if I play spot on to my handicap I'll bogey SI's 1 to 11.

In theory, a 15 h/c will bogey SI's 1 to 15.

I know that'll very rarely happen, but why don't I give the 15 h/c his shots on SI's 12 to 15, where I'm supposed to par and he's supposed to bogey?

I've discussed this at our place and we concluded it shouldn't make any difference. Taking the theoretical round where you both play to handicap on every hole he wins on indexes 1-4 with net pars to your bogeys and you win on indexes 12-15 with pars to his bogeys. More interesting than halving every hole!

I suppose it's just the way it is and maybe it's a bit easier to remember where you are getting/giving the strokes.

Also of course if the club has followed the guidance in stroke indexes then they don't necessarily correlate to the hardest holes

 

[doublebogey7]

What amazes me is that at our club cat 1 players claim that full handicap is unfair in matchplay , whilst at the same time claiming (rightly in my view) that to give our club the best chance of winning they should be picked for the county foursomes marchplay(half combined handicap)team. Can a cat 1 please square the circle for me?

 

[JustOne]

One thing I'd like to change is where they get them.

In theory, if I play spot on to my handicap I'll bogey SI's 1 to 11.

In theory, a 15 h/c will bogey SI's 1 to 15.

I know that'll very rarely happen, but why don't I give the 15 h/c his shots on SI's 12 to 15, where I'm supposed to par and he's supposed to bogey?

I agree if you are 11 and he's 15 then you should have all of your shots and he should have all of his, I don't see the point of having to just take the difference, it probably stacks up (slightly) in favour of the lower h/capper though as your opponent won't be shotting on the easier holes.

 

[Snelly]

Interesting topic. My view is that as Ethan says, both sides of the argument have an excellent case. I think I favour the 3/4 rule but then I suppose I would. Since the change, I have certainly had many more closer matches with higher handicapped players than before which I suppose is generally a good thing but I am winning less.

My only other observation on this is that you can discuss stats or examples all you like but what it all boils down to is beating the man, not the course or your handicap. The mental side of a matchplay game is completely different and I would argue has just as much bearing on the situation as the handicap allowance does.

That is why some people are reknown as excellent match players and others are not. It is the way they handle it mentally that makes them winners in the man vs man matchplay situation.

Just my opinion. With me, if I start a match well then I will usually win. I am not good when coming from behind though. A bad start for me usually means a bad round when playing match play but this isn't the case in strokeplay with me. I can turn it around when i have a card in my hand.

I think it is just me on reflection! I must be mentally weak!