GPS ruling change perhaps....???

[StuartD]

Still maintain that the weather app is ok as it is not real time. Not that it really matters as the compass is still there.

A rules blog and a "Clarification" on the rule from USGA attached

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2010/07/golfers-with-iphones-risk.html


http://gps.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&am...tronic-Devices/

 

[Losttheplot]

It may be selfish of me, but I have a sky caddy which conforms so I couldn't care less if iphones (and such like) are illegal.

Thanks MATE!!

I just cannot see them changing the rule but I hope for my sake and others with an iPhone and LHC without his that they do change it.

 

[The_LHC]

If my phone is in my bag it still has the capability to measure distance and to get a weather report off the net, by that token I'm still cheating then? I'm not using either capability but if I use one of them I'm suddenly cheating even if I don't use the other one.

That is nonsense.

Nonsense it may be but its the rule. Illogical, stupid, downright unfair - call it what you will. It's the rule as it stands now 10.15 3rd Feb 2011. Until it's changed that's the rule

And I understand that, and, if truth be told I will abide by it, if the circumstance ever arises, all I'm trying to point out is WHY the R&A's interpretation of the rule is wrong.

I've said it before but I'll repeat it now, the rule itself, as it stands, is fine, there's nothing wrong with the rule, what's wrong is conclusion the R&A have drawn regarding which devices are legal and which aren't.

The iPhone is illegal because you can't uninstall the Compass app, that's fine, no problem at all but on other phones you CAN uninstall it (if it's even installed in the first place) and, as has been shown, the weather app doesn't "measure" or "gauge" the wind speed or temperature, so doesn't infringe the rules, so a phone with no compass or any other app for showing gradient installed should be legal by the definition of the Rule but the R&A say otherwise, that's where the mistake is.

What I don't understand is why anybody is trying to argue against that?

All sports have nonsense rules - just look at the offside rule in Footy. Golf has more than most.

Like I say, the rule is fine, it's the consequence of the rule that's wrong because the R&A don't appear to understand the capabilities of the current crop of smartphones.

I don't get why you're making such a big deal over it if you don't play comps.

I've explained that, the R&A have a responsibility to implement the rules in a logical and sensible fashion, which they're failing to do in this instance, that should trouble any golfer who cares about the Rules, imo.

 

[The_LHC]

Still maintain that the weather app is ok as it is not real time. Not that it really matters as the compass is still there.

A rules blog and a "Clarification" on the rule from USGA attached

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2010/07/golfers-with-iphones-risk.html

Great point in there about the R&A's iPhone rules app, you have a rules dispute in a comp, a player gets his iPhone out to check the rules on his app, something promoted by the R&A themselves, his partner says "Is that an iPhone 4?", "Yup, why?" "You're disqualified!" because they would be breaking the rules!

Doesn't change anything but it does make the R&A look slightly silly. I'd rather have a proper rule book anyway to be honest.

 

[Screwback]

I could not think of anything else worse than wasting my battery and damaging the screen on my iphone so i have a full proof 100 percent legal sky caddie

Dont' know why it would damage the screen?

At the end of the day there are some funny rules in every sport but they are indeed rules made by a govering body and that means you follow them if you break them you are a cheat.

If my phone is in my bag it still has the capability to measure distance and to get a weather report off the net, by that token I'm still cheating then? I'm not using either capability but if I use one of them I'm suddenly cheating even if I don't use the other one.

That is nonsense.

My Iphone screen would get damaged when pulling it in and out of my picket where tees ball markers etc live.

Also if you do not follow the rules regardless of whether you think they are right or not you are a cheat full stop.

 

[The_LHC]

I could not think of anything else worse than wasting my battery and damaging the screen on my iphone so i have a full proof 100 percent legal sky caddie

Dont' know why it would damage the screen?

At the end of the day there are some funny rules in every sport but they are indeed rules made by a govering body and that means you follow them if you break them you are a cheat.

If my phone is in my bag it still has the capability to measure distance and to get a weather report off the net, by that token I'm still cheating then? I'm not using either capability but if I use one of them I'm suddenly cheating even if I don't use the other one.

That is nonsense.

My Iphone screen would get damaged when pulling it in and out of my picket where tees ball markers etc live.

Erm, put the phone in the other pocket then?

Also if you do not follow the rules regardless of whether you think they are right or not you are a cheat full stop.

Interesting philosophical question, is it cheating if no advantage is gained or can be gained?

Still sounds like nonsense to me...

 

[Screwback]

I could not think of anything else worse than wasting my battery and damaging the screen on my iphone so i have a full proof 100 percent legal sky caddie

Dont' know why it would damage the screen?

At the end of the day there are some funny rules in every sport but they are indeed rules made by a govering body and that means you follow them if you break them you are a cheat.

If my phone is in my bag it still has the capability to measure distance and to get a weather report off the net, by that token I'm still cheating then? I'm not using either capability but if I use one of them I'm suddenly cheating even if I don't use the other one.

That is nonsense.

My Iphone screen would get damaged when pulling it in and out of my picket where tees ball markers etc live.

Erm, put the phone in the other pocket then?

Also if you do not follow the rules regardless of whether you think they are right or not you are a cheat full stop.

Interesting philosophical question, is it cheating if no advantage is gained or can be gained?

Still sounds like nonsense to me...

Could put it in the other pocket...still does not solve battery problems though i am sure you will have the key to that as well.

Unfortunately we are not discussing philosophical questions we are discussing rules that are in black and white set out by people that know a hell of alot more about the game than the majoririty.

You dont play golf to break the rules you play to play by the rules.

The only nonsense on this thread IMHO is what you have typed.

 

[The_LHC]

I could not think of anything else worse than wasting my battery and damaging the screen on my iphone so i have a full proof 100 percent legal sky caddie

Dont' know why it would damage the screen?

At the end of the day there are some funny rules in every sport but they are indeed rules made by a govering body and that means you follow them if you break them you are a cheat.

If my phone is in my bag it still has the capability to measure distance and to get a weather report off the net, by that token I'm still cheating then? I'm not using either capability but if I use one of them I'm suddenly cheating even if I don't use the other one.

That is nonsense.

My Iphone screen would get damaged when pulling it in and out of my picket where tees ball markers etc live.

Erm, put the phone in the other pocket then?

Also if you do not follow the rules regardless of whether you think they are right or not you are a cheat full stop.

Interesting philosophical question, is it cheating if no advantage is gained or can be gained?

Still sounds like nonsense to me...

Could put it in the other pocket...still does not solve battery problems though i am sure you will have the key to that as well.

Unfortunately we are not discussing philosophical questions we are discussing rules that are in black and white

I know and now I'm introducing a general question.

set out by people that know a hell of alot more about the game than the majoririty.

They might know more about the game than the majority but they obviously don't know anything about phones, which was the point I was making.

You dont play golf to break the rules you play to play by the rules.

And you cannot question those rules at all then? This is Golf, it isn't Communist China!

The only nonsense on this thread IMHO is what you have typed.

Ooooooh *handbag*

 

[Robobum]

They might know more about the game than the majority but they obviously don't know anything about phones, which was the point I was making.

I popped into The Carphone Warehouse this morning to ask how to proceed in a bunker that is flooded. Was it okay to drop outside the trap under penalty??


The guy looked at me funny and said that he knew everything about phones but couldn't help me with my golf......strange!!

 

[Leftie]

Some of you guys are doing my head in and seem to be arguing for the sake of it without actually really considering the whole picture.

The R and A are happy to allow the use of a DEVICE (under local rule etc.) that measures distance only. They do not specify what type of device that may be as there are many possibilities and it is ridiculous to suggest that they should legislate for every individual possibility every time someone thinks of a new way to do it.

Any DEVICE that may have a facility to help the golfer in any other way (choose as many or few possibilities as you like) is therefore non-conforming.

There is no mention in the rule of an Iphone per se. There is no mention of trolleys that at one time had a temperature sensor built in as I believe was the case for a short while with Motocaddy.

Those who think that the R and A were being short sighted are, in my view, being rather blinkered. I think that they were actually looking to the future when goodness knows what facilities might be available to help the golfer on a hand held device and I'm sure that they are trying to ensure, as far as possible, a level playing field.

They are simply trying to future proof the rules in a very clear and unambiguous way i.e. "We are not happy with DMD's but will allow them under local rule but anything else that might possibly now or in the future give a golfer an advantage will not be allowed". (My words).

Simples


I suspect that most of those arguing that the R and A are wrong, are those who bought an Iphone or similar because that is what they wanted, found out that a DMD app was available, and now feel that they are hard done by because it may not be conforming.

Tough! Get over it!

For those who bought an Iphone because it had a DMD app - I feel sorry for you. More money than sense.

 

[The_LHC]

Some of you guys are doing my head in and seem to be arguing for the sake of it without actually really considering the whole picture.

Yes they are but don't look at me when you say that.

The R and A are happy to allow the use of a DEVICE (under local rule etc.) that measures distance only.

Correct.

They do not specify what type of device that may be as there are many possibilities and it is ridiculous to suggest that they should legislate for every individual possibility every time someone thinks of a new way to do it.

Nobody's suggested that, I haven't, I'm simply saying the rule needs to be applied accurately, it isn't at this time.

Any DEVICE that may have a facility to help the golfer in any other way (choose as many or few possibilities as you like) is therefore non-conforming.

Wrong, not "may", "does" and "does" means it needs to have the necessary hardware AND have an app installed to use that hardware, the R&A have confirmed that themselves, with reference to the iPhone's compass, not because the iPhone has magnetic measuring equipment built it but because the app that uses that equipment cannot be removed. If it could be removed, the iPhone wouldn't be illegal.

There is no mention in the rule of an Iphone per se.

Read the email from the R&A on the first page of this thread, they specifically mention the iPhone as being illegal for the reasons laid out above. It isn't a "Rule" with a capital "R" or even a "Decision" but it is a specified prohibition directly from the R&A.

Those who think that the R and A were being short sighted are, in my view, being rather blinkered. I think that they were actually looking to the future when goodness knows what facilities might be available to help the golfer on a hand held device and I'm sure that they are trying to ensure, as far as possible, a level playing field.

And I'm not arguing with ANY of that and have no problem with any of that, which you'd know if you'd actually read anything I've written.

They are simply trying to future proof the rules in a very clear and unambiguous way i.e. "We are not happy with DMD's but will allow them under local rule but anything else that might possibly now or in the future give a golfer an advantage will not be allowed". (My words).

And those words are fine, the point is AGAIN, that most smartphones do NOT contradict that rule.

I mean, honestly, how difficult is to understand that?

Simples

Yeah you'd think wouldn't you?

I suspect that most of those arguing that the R and A are wrong, are those who bought an Iphone or similar because that is what they wanted, found out that a DMD app was available, and now feel that they are hard done by because it may not be conforming.

No, I feel hard done by because my device IS conforming by every possible, logical interpretation of the Rule and yet if I use it I will apparently be disqualified and am considered by some to be a disgusting cheat.

I can't state it any plainer than that, so if people STILL don't get the point then you're beyond help.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I can't believe this is still going on. I'm sorry LHC but you talk about communist China in one of your retorts but your failure to accept that other people have a right to an opinion i.e to go with the decision of the R&A hardly smacks of a democratic right to free speech

You seem determined to prove that black is white and your point must be the right one because you keep repeating it over and over. We get the gist. You arent't happy. Tough the decision has been made rightly or wrongly and the continuous repetition of one guy isn't going to budge that position one iota

 

[Imurg]

Anyone feel like an England Pool Association Referee Examiner...?

 

[SammmeBee]

The rule was written in 2007....it's really quite clear: Does it do distance only? YES - ok....NO - can't use it....

 

[The_LHC]

I can't believe this is still going on. I'm sorry LHC but you talk about communist China in one of your retorts but your failure to accept that other people have a right to an opinion i.e to go with the decision of the R&A hardly smacks of a democratic right to free speech

I'm perfectly happy to accept other people have a right to an opinion, nobody seems to accept my right to hold the opposite opinion though.

The point is opinions have no place in a Rule Book, Rules have to deal with fact, as do the interpretations of those Rules but this interpretation is not based on fact.

You seem determined to prove that black is white

Bull, it's the R&A that are saying black is white by stating that all smartphones are in breach of this rule when they aren't!

and your point must be the right one because you keep repeating it over and over. We get the gist. You arent't happy. Tough the decision has been made rightly or wrongly and the continuous repetition of one guy isn't going to budge that position one iota

I know that, all I'm asking is for people to accept that the interpretation is wrong, I'm NOT asking them to go against the rule, I'm simply asking people to contemplate the idea that the R&A are wrong in this case (note: not that the Rule is wrong but the implementation of it). But just about everybody on this thread seems to be totally unable or unwilling to do that.

I mean barely anybody has even addressed the points I've raised, you just keep repeating "the decisions been made, the decisions been made" and yet you (plural) don't even understand the basis upon which the decision has been formulated. If I'm repeating myself it's only because I keep getting the same answers over and over again which are completely missing the point, or deliberately avoiding it.

But this is my last word on this subject and I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear, to this forum, if people can't understand simple logic (and it really is VERY simple in this case) then I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you.

 

[Losttheplot]

Anyone fancy a beer..???? Sort of wish I didn't start the thread...!!

 

[Region3]

Anyone feel like an England Pool Association Referee Examiner...?

No thanks I'm trying to give them up


What is one anyway? The guy that gives EPA referees exams?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

They are because the R&A have decreed it. They are the govening body and so their word is law and we have to play by the rules. We can't just ignore it because you think it doesn't make sense to you. I'm sure Poulter didn't think it made any difference when his marker moved but he played within the rules

I know that, all I'm asking is for people to accept that the interpretation is wrong, I'm NOT asking them to go against the rule, I'm simply asking people to contemplate the idea that the R&A are wrong in this case (note: not that the Rule is wrong but the implementation of it). But just about everybody on this thread seems to be totally unable or unwilling to do that.

Maybe the don't agree with you?

 

[Leftie]

You're not an RMT union rep are you??

 

[shagster]

you are guilty because you may not because you did.
all other rules say you are guilty if you do.
they are saying that if you have an iphone you are going to cheat not a very fair assumption
does the r and a have shares in sky caddie
this area needs a major overhaul, as iphone users are being penalised.
shagster