GPS ruling change perhaps....???

[Losttheplot]

Right guys (and gals) I have an interesting question.

If you have an iPhone and use a golf distance measuring app (such as golfshot) do you think the ruling on the use of such a device should be reviewed???

My point is you are allowed to carry a GPS such as a skycaddie and also allowed to carry a mobile phone on you. But you can't combine the two and use an iPhone as the GPS in competition play because of the iPhone capability to access windspeeds, gradients and temperature. But surely anyone choosing to carry a skycaddie can easily pick their mobile phone up and check windspeeds and temperature as nearly all modern mobile phones have internet access.

So why should the use of an iPhone be punished?? As long as you don't start placing it on the green checking gradients I can't see an issue.
With that thought in mind should the clubs start banning mobile phones on the course because of their capability to access the same information an iPhone does (except for the gradient)????

I've applied to my home course to review the local rule of banning them as Im under the impression the R&A allow local rulings to stand in place over such issues.

 

[Imurg]

I checked this out with the R&A a few months back. As many phones now have interwebbythingy access they are not technically banned.
If you use a GPS App with your Iphone you are not breaching any rules....

UNLESS

YOu have any app INSTALLED on it that could give you wind speeds, temperature, compass, gradient etc etc.
They have to be installed on the phone - whether you use them or not is irrelevent under the current rules. The fact of having internet access does not render the device illegal - it's what is on the phone that matters.

Ok you could get on the web on the 12th to check windspeed and temperature - then you would be breaking the rules.
Technically you would also be breaking the rules if you have a weather app installed and you check your phone for a call or a text.

Not the clearest ruling but that's the way it is. Not easy to police either - does the Committee physically check all phones before a comp to see what's loaded - course not , it would take forever.

That's the downside of using a Smartphone for your GPS. Potentially you could get a DQ if you check your phone and your weather app is installed or you have a compass app - many iphones?

I do think this should be clarified by the R&A at the next update of rules because I'm sure many phone-using GPS'ers are actually breaking the rules without knowing.

 

[StuartD]

Technically you would also be breaking the rules if you have a weather app installed and you check your phone for a call or a text.

That is not correct. If a club permits you to use a phone on the course you can use it as one even if you have weather/slope/gradient apps installed. Note a weather may be ok anyway as it may give current weather at the nearest weather station. It needs to be weather at your specific location before it is banned

It works the same for checking the R&A rules app. You can use your phone to check the rules even with the above apps installed.

It is ONLY when you use it as a GPS, that it becomes illegal if you also have the above offending apps even if you don't use them.

That basically means you are trusted not to look at weather/slope/gradient apps when using the device as a phone or rules checker. When you use it as a GPS you can't be trusted not to look at the offending apps.

I know someone within the R&A rules section and they are quite aware that the current rule is not ideal but with the pace of technology they are unsure of the best way forward at this time.

It's not specifically the iPhone that is banned. It's just Apple's fault as they won't let you remove the offending apps (Compass). Also it's only the 3GS and the 4 that has it. The original 3 is ok to use.

 

[Imurg]

Technically you would also be breaking the rules if you have a weather app installed and you check your phone for a call or a text.

That is not correct. If a club permits you to use a phone on the course you can use it as one even if you have weather/slope/gradient apps installed. Note a weather may be ok anyway as it may give current weather at the nearest weather station. It needs to be weather at your specific location before it is banned

It works the same for checking the R&A rules app. You can use your phone to check the rules even with the above apps installed.

It is ONLY when you use it as a GPS, that it becomes illegal if you also have the above offending apps even if you don't use them.

That basically means you are trusted not to look at weather/slope/gradient apps when using the device as a phone or rules checker. When you use it as a GPS you can't be trusted not to look at the offending apps.

I know someone within the R&A rules section and they are quite aware that the current rule is not ideal but with the pace of technology they are unsure of the best way forward at this time.

It's not specifically the iPhone that is banned. It's just Apple's fault as they won't let you remove the offending apps (Compass). Also it's only the 3GS and the 4 that has it. The original 3 is ok to use.

Sorry - bad wording. I meant if you were using the GPS but checked a txt you'd be in trouble.

JUst shows how unclear it all is.

 

[Imurg]

Copy of email from R&A


Thank you for your email.

The use of distance measuring devices during a stipulated round remains contrary to the Rules of Golf; however, a Committee can permit them via a Local Rule (see below).

In terms of a GPS device on an iPhone or Blackberry, provided the distance application that is downloaded measures just distance only, it is permitted to use the iphone or Blackberry for this purpse when the Local Rule is in place. However, it is worth noting that any other applications on the phone such as a compass, wind speed or temperature gauge would render the iPhone non-conforming, even although the specific distance application does not measure these aspects. Therefore as your phone has and displays a temperature app, it would not be possible to use the distance application in a competition.

It is appreciated that as the Internet is now readily available on most mobile phones and multi-functional devices, it is possible to access non-conforming information through this route at any time. In terms of the Rules, provided the Internet is not used for this purpose, the fact that it exists on the phone does not render the distance application non-conforming.

I hope that this is of assistance.

Kind regards
SHONA McRAE
Manager - Rules of Golf
The R&A, St Andrews, Fife, Scotland, KY16 9JD
Tel: ++44 (0) 1334 460000, Fax: ++44 (0) 1334 460003

Appendix I, Part B, 9. Distance-Measuring Devices
If the Committee wishes to act in accordance with the Note under Rule 14-3, the following wording is recommended:
"Distance Measuring Devices: [Specify as appropriate, e.g. In this competition, or For all play at this course, etc.], a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. If, during a stipulated round, a player uses a distance-measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play (e.g. gradient, wind speed, temperature, etc.), the player is in breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional function is actually used."

 

[CliveW]

Any analogue watch can be used as a compass. Are they banned? Is that why you don't see many pros wearing them?

 

[Losttheplot]

I still can't understand why the R&A can't allow them. Its almost prejudice against any smart phone...

Theres nothing stopping anyone picking up there normal mobile phone and checking the weather. It could be 2 clicks away just like on an iPhone but because it's classed as an app and not a 'favourite' on your Internet page it's somehow non conforming. It just doesn't make sense at all.

Both options are identical but one is non conforming and the other is based on trust not to access the Internet.

 

[User 105]

In all honestly how much of an advantage would getting the wind direction, speed and the temp from a phone actually be ? Really ?

Most of us would have a good enough idea of all of these just by standing there surely ?

And as some has said it's actually taken from a local weather station, not exactly where you are. I know our course seems to have it's own micro climate. According to my weather app it's said bright sunshine and on the course it's chucking it down.

 

[brendy]

In all honestly how much of an advantage would getting the wind direction, speed and the temp from a phone actually be ? Really ?

Most of us would have a good enough idea of all of these just by standing there surely ?

And as some has said it's actually taken from a local weather station, not exactly where you are. I know our course seems to have it's own micro climate. According to my weather app it's said bright sunshine and on the course it's chucking it down.

Exactly, thats like telling a dog what goes into his pedigree chum. I can still miss greens from 150 yards with no wind.
This isnt Tiger Woods 2011, knowing the difference between a 5mph and a 6 mph breeze is not going to make any difference especially when we have the ability to be so inconsistent.

 

[chrisd]

I use a Sky caddie and also have a Bushnell laser rangefinder (I only use one or the other on a round) so obviously have a positive view of these aids.

For me and most people, it wouldn't matter if I was caddied by Michael Fish, Lee Westwood, Chris Bonnington and Sherpa Bleeding Tensing, I can still miss any green no matter how much information I had to help me! Nobody can check every device and app thet may be being used out there - just ok everything and get on with the game!


Chris

 

[The_LHC]

Copy of email from R&A

Therefore as your phone has and displays a temperature app, it would not be possible to use the distance application in a competition.

Sorry I think the R&A are wrong here, the phone's weather app can't tell you the actual current temperature and wind speed (at least I'm not aware of any apps that can do that, magnetic field strength and gradient from the accelerometer yes), all the app is telling you is the FORECAST temperature and wind speed and that's no different to looking it up on the net or watching a weather forecast on TV before you head out, even the "latest observations" will be a few minutes out of date at least and, as previously said, unlikely to refer to your actual location.

As far as I can tell it's against the rules to have a device that gives you the actual wind speed and temperature at your location at that precise moment (such as a handheld wind gauge) and I don't think any phone can do that.

 

[freddielong]

Its a classic example of being given an inch and wanting to take a mile imo, the R&A have allowed clubs to pass a local rule allowing the use of distance only measureing devices.

If you use or buy something that does more than that then its your problem please dont moan you should have known the rule before hand, I beleive the distance only part of the rule is to stop you using a device that actually picks your clubs.

 

[The_LHC]

Its a classic example of being given an inch and wanting to take a mile imo, the R&A have allowed clubs to pass a local rule allowing the use of distance only measureing devices.

If you use or buy something that does more than that then its your problem please dont moan you should have known the rule before hand, I beleive the distance only part of the rule is to stop you using a device that actually picks your clubs.

It isn't that at all, the GPS Golf app on my phone only gives me distances, nothing else, it doesn't even show me the layout of the hole like a lot of them do. Neither can the phone tell me anything more about the weather conditions that what I could find on the TV before I leave the clubhouse, so I have no additional information available to me than anyone else does and yet because I can look up the forecasted weather on the phone I'm not allowed to use it all of a sudden?

THAT is a classic case of the R&A not understanding how the weather app on a phone actually works and legislating for something that no phone can actually do. So as far as I'm concerned there's nothing illegal about my phone.

 

[freddielong]

If the option was there and the rule not so specific do you not think Skycaddie etc would develop a hand held device that would give you all that info and in time pick your shots

 

[The_LHC]

If the option was there and the rule not so specific do you not think Skycaddie etc would develop a hand held device that would give you all that info and in time pick your shots

That's my point, the rule IS already specific, and the option ISN'T there on the phone, so why can't I use my GPS app?

My point is that I'm being banned for something my phone CANNOT do, which is a nonsense. There's nothing wrong with the rule itself, it's the R&As interpretation of it that's incorrect.

 

[Imurg]

Sorry I think the R&A are wrong here,

I think you'll find the R&A are right - it's their bat, ball and wicket.

 

[The_LHC]

Sorry I think the R&A are wrong here,

I think you'll find the R&A are right - it's their bat, ball and wicket.

Did you even bother reading the explanation as to why?

You can't ban a device on the basis of something it CAN'T do.

 

[Imurg]

Sorry I think the R&A are wrong here,

I think you'll find the R&A are right - it's their bat, ball and wicket.

Did you even bother reading the explanation as to why?

You can't ban a device on the basis of something it CAN'T do.

I think you'll find the R&A can do whatever the hell they like - whether you agree or not is irrelevent.

Smartphones are not banned. Smartphones using GPS are not banned. Having a weather app on your DMD is banned whether you use it or not. The rules Manager of the R&A says so.

I can't see the problem.
Disable your weather apps and you're in the clear.

 

[chrisd]

I think you'll find the R&A can do whatever the hell they like - whether you agree or not is irrelevent.

I think that we all accept that but, what is up for discussion, is whether the ruling is the one they should have made. For 99.99% of golfers, having every scrap of information possible to hand before playing their shot, would not help play the shot better than they would have under the current system. So, to stop them using apps etc just because you can get added information (even if it's out of date) is just a little pedantic.


Chris

 

[freddielong]

I think I am confused why cant you use your device and who said you cant