GPS ruling change perhaps....???

[USER1999]

Would you ping a mate for using a phone based GPS in a comp? and if you reported him to the comittee, do you think they would d'q him? I'm not convinced either way. Especially as whilst technically cheating, it isn't really of any benefit to the cheater.

 

[The_LHC]

But they are being developed all the time, there are new apps every day so what happens if there is one developed tomorrow or a smart phone that can and everyone buys it before the R&A react, the R&A would be under pressure to allow it I sure there would be law suits etc, I think the R&A are just setting out there stall in advance

And that's fine but the point you are still missing more than a John Daly four-putt is that they are using that rule RIGHT NOW to ban devices that CANNOT do what the law prohibits!

It's not that difficult to understand!

 

[Imurg]

Especially as whilst technically cheating, it isn't really of any benefit to the cheater.

Well now we're back to Harrington's DQ for moving the ball 1/24th of an inch. Can't have leeway on one rule but not on another.

 

[Imurg]

But they are being developed all the time, there are new apps every day so what happens if there is one developed tomorrow or a smart phone that can and everyone buys it before the R&A react, the R&A would be under pressure to allow it I sure there would be law suits etc, I think the R&A are just setting out there stall in advance

And that's fine but the point you are still missing more than a John Daly four-putt is that they are using that rule RIGHT NOW to ban devices that CANNOT do what the law prohibits!

It's not that difficult to understand!

Nor is the fact that under current rules a smartphone with a weather app installed cannot be used as a DMD in competition. Good rule/bad rule - it doesn't matter. The rule is there. If you use one in competition you are breaking the rules.

 

[The_LHC]

So your phone couldn't access info such as that on the bottom half of this site??

Here

I'm sure it's not the only course with an on site weather station either.

Yes you could, although not with the Weather app but anybody standing outside the club house could do that before they start their round (which doesn't start until they tee off remember, so they're breaking no rules there).

Where do you draw the line though? The course I used to play had a wind vane on the roof that you could see from the 18th and 1st holes, is looking at that to get the wind direction cheating?

 

[freddielong]

But they are being developed all the time, there are new apps every day so what happens if there is one developed tomorrow or a smart phone that can and everyone buys it before the R&A react, the R&A would be under pressure to allow it I sure there would be law suits etc, I think the R&A are just setting out there stall in advance

And that's fine but the point you are still missing more than a John Daly four-putt is that they are using that rule RIGHT NOW to ban devices that CANNOT do what the law prohibits!

It's not that difficult to understand!

I understand what you are saying I just dont agree with you and think the R and a have it correct

I think all phones should be banned on the course anyway which I am guessing would upset you further

 

[The_LHC]

But they are being developed all the time, there are new apps every day so what happens if there is one developed tomorrow or a smart phone that can and everyone buys it before the R&A react, the R&A would be under pressure to allow it I sure there would be law suits etc, I think the R&A are just setting out there stall in advance

And that's fine but the point you are still missing more than a John Daly four-putt is that they are using that rule RIGHT NOW to ban devices that CANNOT do what the law prohibits!

It's not that difficult to understand!

Nor is the fact that under current rules a smartphone with a weather app installed cannot be used as a DMD in competition. Good rule/bad rule - it doesn't matter. The rule is there. If you use one in competition you are breaking the rules.

No, you aren't.

This is the rule:


Appendix I, Part B, 9. Distance-Measuring Devices
If the Committee wishes to act in accordance with the Note under Rule 14-3, the following wording is recommended:
"Distance Measuring Devices: [Specify as appropriate, e.g. In this competition, or For all play at this course, etc.], a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. If, during a stipulated round, a player uses a distance-measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play (e.g. gradient, wind speed, temperature, etc.), the player is in breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional function is actually used."

"that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect his play"

That's the point, a modern smartphone can not gauge or measure ANY conditions on the course at that moment, therefore it does NOT break the rules.

As I said before, the rule is fine, it's the R&As interpretation of it that's wrong.

 

[The_LHC]

But they are being developed all the time, there are new apps every day so what happens if there is one developed tomorrow or a smart phone that can and everyone buys it before the R&A react, the R&A would be under pressure to allow it I sure there would be law suits etc, I think the R&A are just setting out there stall in advance

And that's fine but the point you are still missing more than a John Daly four-putt is that they are using that rule RIGHT NOW to ban devices that CANNOT do what the law prohibits!

It's not that difficult to understand!

I understand what you are saying

No, you clearly don't, otherwise you wouldn't be repeating the same argument every time.

I think all phones should be banned on the course anyway which I am guessing would upset you further

You'd guess wrong, I've never made or received a phone call on the course in my life, I play golf to get away from that.

 

[Robobum]

Aren't a lot of apps web based?? So you can have your weather app button take you directly to that site, I'm sure it's not hard after all there are junior school kids designing apps every day.

That weather vane doesn't tell you the strength. There are 18 flags that will also tell you the direction it's blowing.

 

[The_LHC]

So you're going to continue using your iPhone GPS even though it has weather/compass apps installed on it?

I don't own an iPhone.

 

[Imurg]

In terms of a GPS device on an iPhone or Blackberry, provided the distance application that is downloaded measures just distance only, it is permitted to use the iphone or Blackberry for this purpse when the Local Rule is in place. However, it is worth noting that any other applications on the phone such as a compass, wind speed or temperature gauge would render the iPhone non-conforming, even although the specific distance application does not measure these aspects.

Seems quite straightforward to me.

So are you still going to use your phone, whichever it may be....?

 

[The_LHC]

Aren't a lot of apps web based?? So you can have your weather app button take you directly to that site, I'm sure it's not hard after all there are junior school kids designing apps every day.

Yes they are but that implies you have web access, which you won't on a lot of courses and which can be disabled anyway by putting the phone into airline mode (Apps still function but with the connection to the mobile network switched off there's no internet access possible).

That weather vane doesn't tell you the strength.

No but a piece of grass in the air does, I'd have to suggest that's more use to most people than knowing if the wind is blowing at 12mph or only 11. Most people couldn't tell you what a particular wind speed feels like anyway, so knowing the wind speed in mph is useless, I'd suggest.

There are 18 flags that will also tell you the direction it's blowing.

Exactly and the trees but that's something else you wouldn't be allowed to measure but there's the course doing it for you. Take it to the ludicrous extreme and you could argue that St Enodoc shouldn't be allowed to host any competition because it hands out real-time weather info contrary to the rules.

 

[freddielong]

But they are being developed all the time, there are new apps every day so what happens if there is one developed tomorrow or a smart phone that can and everyone buys it before the R&A react, the R&A would be under pressure to allow it I sure there would be law suits etc, I think the R&A are just setting out there stall in advance

And that's fine but the point you are still missing more than a John Daly four-putt is that they are using that rule RIGHT NOW to ban devices that CANNOT do what the law prohibits!

It's not that difficult to understand!

I understand what you are saying

No, you clearly don't, otherwise you wouldn't be repeating the same argument every time.

I think all phones should be banned on the course anyway which I am guessing would upset you further

You'd guess wrong, I've never made or received a phone call on the course in my life, I play golf to get away from that.

You are saying you are banned from using the distance app on your phone because your phone has a seperate weather app on it that is no more usefull than information that can be looked up on television and you dont feel its fair

Am i right

 

[Swinger]

Looks like you are quoting different parts of the same rule but I'd agree with LHC that the apps would need to give information to the specific conditions to be illegal.

Everyone can check conditions before a round and during a round in their own way but I can understand that having a computer working it all out for you would be an unfair advantage. Only if the information given is down to the specific conditions though.

Someone said earlier that the R&A have probably put this in as a measure for advanced devises most of which either don't exist or are not readily available.

I know a phone can give you the weather, temp and wind speed but are these actually on a app displaying info for the general area or being measured at point??

When is the ban on throwing grass up in the air coming in??

 

[The_LHC]

In terms of a GPS device on an iPhone or Blackberry, provided the distance application that is downloaded measures just distance only, it is permitted to use the iphone or Blackberry for this purpse when the Local Rule is in place. However, it is worth noting that any other applications on the phone such as a compass, wind speed or temperature gauge would render the iPhone non-conforming, even although the specific distance application does not measure these aspects.

Seems quite straightforward to me.

That isn't the rule, that's the R&A's interpretation of the rule, which, as I've said so many times, is factually wrong because they are erroneously assuming that a smartphone can actually measure the wind speed or temperature. She even says it herself in that quote:

"wind speed or temperature gauge"

No current phone has those devices and a weather app provides neither of those functions, so yes it is straightforward, they're legal.

So are you still going to use your phone, whichever it may be....?

As I don't have a compass on my phone, yes, I am.

 

[The_LHC]

But they are being developed all the time, there are new apps every day so what happens if there is one developed tomorrow or a smart phone that can and everyone buys it before the R&A react, the R&A would be under pressure to allow it I sure there would be law suits etc, I think the R&A are just setting out there stall in advance

And that's fine but the point you are still missing more than a John Daly four-putt is that they are using that rule RIGHT NOW to ban devices that CANNOT do what the law prohibits!

It's not that difficult to understand!

I understand what you are saying

No, you clearly don't, otherwise you wouldn't be repeating the same argument every time.

I think all phones should be banned on the course anyway which I am guessing would upset you further

You'd guess wrong, I've never made or received a phone call on the course in my life, I play golf to get away from that.

You are saying you are banned from using the distance app on your phone because your phone has a seperate weather app on it that is no more usefull than information that can be looked up on television and you dont feel its fair

Am i right

Yes but you're arguing that the rule is only there to ban future devices, it isn't, it's being used right now.

I have no issue with those future devices being banned, I just find it illogical to ban current devices that don't break that rule, as my "future driver" analogy suggests.

 

[viscount17]

The_LHC you just don't get it do you.

The current Rule Book runs from 2008 - 2011. That means that any rule changes, including DMD, were debated between 2005 (when the last rule book was issued) and 2007.
What smartphones were around then, certainly no Blackberries, iPhones?, anything? - and certainly no apps.
What do you expect of the rules committees (the USGA is involved in this too) - that they can foresee the future? if they could they'd all be rich and retired.

Does your iPhone have a weather app, a compass app, can it measure gradient - any 'currently prohibited technology' - if yes to any - tough, you can't use it.
Best you can hope for this year is a Decision (and there are too many of those as it is) and I don't see that coming.
Next is a Rule change - next year - and if you want it considered write to the R&A - but you may be too late.

Don't forget it's not beyond the bounds of possiblity that they could ban DMD too - unlikely, but possible. I just hope they get off the fence and make an equitable ruling for everyone.

 

[chrisd]

Well, at least we have got away from the usual argument on here that their use is not in the spirit of the game and therefore cheating!!



Chris

 

[Imurg]

I have to say I'd rather follow the R&A's interpretation of a rule any day of the week.

It would interesting to see the R&A's interpretation challenged. YOu obviously feel very strongly about this - why don't you take it up with them, argue your point and see what happens.

My only interest in this whole thread is making sure people are aware of a ruling that might get them DQ'd in a competition.

 

[freddielong]

But they are being developed all the time, there are new apps every day so what happens if there is one developed tomorrow or a smart phone that can and everyone buys it before the R&A react, the R&A would be under pressure to allow it I sure there would be law suits etc, I think the R&A are just setting out there stall in advance

And that's fine but the point you are still missing more than a John Daly four-putt is that they are using that rule RIGHT NOW to ban devices that CANNOT do what the law prohibits!

It's not that difficult to understand!

I understand what you are saying

No, you clearly don't, otherwise you wouldn't be repeating the same argument every time.

I think all phones should be banned on the course anyway which I am guessing would upset you further

You'd guess wrong, I've never made or received a phone call on the course in my life, I play golf to get away from that.

You are saying you are banned from using the distance app on your phone because your phone has a seperate weather app on it that is no more usefull than information that can be looked up on television and you dont feel its fair

Am i right

Yes but you're arguing that the rule is only there to ban future devices, it isn't, it's being used right now.

I have no issue with those future devices being banned, I just find it illogical to ban current devices that don't break that rule, as my "future driver" analogy suggests.

This way the R&A do not have to keep up to date with all smart phone tech they have made the rule there you go no questions, it is what it is, which I agree with