GPS ruling change perhaps....???

[haplesshacker]

To take it one step further. Am I at an advantage because I've sailed for 30 years? What I mean is that I probably 'understand' wind better than some and can figure out wind bend around obstacles, wind sheer, cloud formation and gust effect!

Tosh. I can still hit a ball as badly as anyone, and consequently having some knowledge is worthless. Anyway no app can figure all that out!

As I see it the R&A don't understand what apps can or cannot do and consequently have made a bad decision. For now, it's the rules, but allowing clubs to decide is a cop out. Our club has banned smart phones and the use of smart phone based GPS systems. Again because they wrongly think that a compass is really going to help.

We have this thread every couple of months, but I doubt if the R&A are listening. Perhaps the next interview the mag does with the R&A could push them on this issue?

 

[chrisd]

Disable your weather apps and you're in the clear.

The rules say that you would be disqualified if your distance device can measure things other than distance as well, even if they are not used.



Chris

 

[The_LHC]

I think I am confused why cant you use your device and who said you cant

Further up the thread, the email from the R&A explaining that if you have a weather app on your phone you're not permitted to use the phone as a GPS device because the weather app can tell you the wind speed and temperature.

The fact is, it CAN'T, it can tell you the forecasted wind speed and temperature but not the ACTUAL wind speed and temperature. As I said, you can get the forecasted wind speed and temperature from your TV before you play, does that mean anyone who's done that can't use a GPS device? No but that's effectively what the R&A have ruled here, because they think a phone's weather app can give real time readings for wind and temperature.

 

[The_LHC]

Disable your weather apps and you're in the clear.

The rules say that you would be disqualified if your distance device can measure things other than distance as well, even if they are not used.

I hope that's what it does say because then we're fine, I'd like to see them "measure" the wind and temperature using my phone as it has neither a thermometer nor a wind gauge.

 

[chrisd]

As I said, you can get the forecasted wind speed and temperature from your TV before you play, does that mean anyone who's done that can't use a GPS device? .

No, it means that you can't take your 42" plama Samsung telly round with you



Chris

 

[The_LHC]

As I said, you can get the forecasted wind speed and temperature from your TV before you play, does that mean anyone who's done that can't use a GPS device? .

No, it means that you can't take your 42" plama Samsung telly round with you

Ok but joking aside, what if I cut out the weather report from this morning's newspaper and stick it in my pocket, am I legal then?

 

[freddielong]

I think I am confused why cant you use your device and who said you cant

Further up the thread, the email from the R&A explaining that if you have a weather app on your phone you're not permitted to use the phone as a GPS device because the weather app can tell you the wind speed and temperature.

The fact is, it CAN'T, it can tell you the forecasted wind speed and temperature but not the ACTUAL wind speed and temperature. As I said, you can get the forecasted wind speed and temperature from your TV before you play, does that mean anyone who's done that can't use a GPS device? No but that's effectively what the R&A have ruled here, because they think a phone's weather app can give real time readings for wind and temperature.

If it cant do those things take it off then you can use your phone, simples

I guess the R&A have to protect themselves from devices that will be able to do those things in the future

Its better to have the rule in place in case then try to implement afterwards and face lawsuits from device makers

 

[viscount17]

I think you'll find the R&A can do whatever the hell they like - whether you agree or not is irrelevent.

I think that we all accept that but, what is up for discussion, is whether the ruling is the one they should have made.

Other than that it is a 'sitting on the fence rule' yes it is the one they should have made at the time they made it. when this rule came out there were no such apps for phones so they may have been preempting weather stations in buggies.
if you choose to buy technology ahead of the next rule change (and it gives you a big hint on the front cover as to when that is) then it's your look out. It isn't the R&A's fault - there is plenty that they are guilty of (imo) - this isn't one of them.

 

[chrisd]

Ok but joking aside, what if I cut out the weather report from this morning's newspaper and stick it in my pocket, am I legal then?

Joking aside LHC I think that this is a point that the R & A needs to address as I am sure that only machines capable of computing windspeed, gradients, temperature etc whilst actually on the course were what they intended to ban, but, as it's very new technology, they need to update their rulings which even in a short space of time has fallen behind


Chris

 

[Imurg]

Disable your weather apps and you're in the clear.

The rules say that you would be disqualified if your distance device can measure things other than distance as well, even if they are not used.



Chris

Hence the word disable......... Uninstall, delete, get rid of........
No weather app (or whatever) and you've got a legal DMD.

I think the big point here is not whether the rule is good or bad. It's there. It is a rule.
My point is that a lot of people who are using smartphone-based GPS apps could well be breaking the rules without knowing it. The rule doesn't apply to me as I have a Skycaddie so I'm not going to get DQ'd as a result of using a smartphone-based GPS while I have a weather app installed on my iphone.

But sooner or later someone will.

 

[The_LHC]

Ok but joking aside, what if I cut out the weather report from this morning's newspaper and stick it in my pocket, am I legal then?

Joking aside LHC I think that this is a point that the R & A needs to address as I am sure that only machines capable of computing windspeed, gradients, temperature etc whilst actually on the course were what they intended to ban, but, as it's very new technology, they need to update their rulings which even in a short space of time has fallen behind

Exactly!

 

[haplesshacker]

As far as I've tried. You cannot delete the iPhone standard weather app that's preloaded onto the phone. Same with the compass.

So that rules that suggestion out.

But what I still do not understand is these apps cannot tell you something that you didn't already know, weather forecast for example. Its not as if a damn phone can tell you what the weather is doing on the first tee. It's not an anometer, a temperature gauge, or a full weather station. So why ban them?

Okay. There are apps that you can use on a green like a spirit level. But in all honesty it would be pretty obvious if you used it, and wouldn't work unless you 'mapped' out the whole green. That should only take about a day!!

 

[freddielong]

Ok but joking aside, what if I cut out the weather report from this morning's newspaper and stick it in my pocket, am I legal then?

Joking aside LHC I think that this is a point that the R & A needs to address as I am sure that only machines capable of computing windspeed, gradients, temperature etc whilst actually on the course were what they intended to ban, but, as it's very new technology, they need to update their rulings which even in a short space of time has fallen behind

Exactly!

To me the rule is to stop the advance of the tech so it does not need to change, distance only is fine

 

[The_LHC]

I think I am confused why cant you use your device and who said you cant

Further up the thread, the email from the R&A explaining that if you have a weather app on your phone you're not permitted to use the phone as a GPS device because the weather app can tell you the wind speed and temperature.

The fact is, it CAN'T, it can tell you the forecasted wind speed and temperature but not the ACTUAL wind speed and temperature. As I said, you can get the forecasted wind speed and temperature from your TV before you play, does that mean anyone who's done that can't use a GPS device? No but that's effectively what the R&A have ruled here, because they think a phone's weather app can give real time readings for wind and temperature.

If it cant do those things take it off then you can use your phone, simples

I guess the R&A have to protect themselves from devices that will be able to do those things in the future

And I have no problem with that but my phone right NOW, doesn't do anything (and cannot do, no matter what apps I install on it) that falls foul of this rule and yet it's still apparently banned!

Can you not see that that's a nonsense?

If you want an analogy it's like the rule for COR with drivers, it can't exceed .830, so for example, TaylorMade release the R11, which has a COR of .829 (I'm guessing, I don't know what it is) so is legal but the R&A ban it because the future R12 might exceed .830. It might not as well but better be safe than sorry eh, so we'll ban the R12 before it's even been made and also the R11 because it's a bit similar.

If they did that, everyone would laugh at them but that's exactly what they're doing with this rule.

There's nothing wrong with the rule, it just doesn't apply to ANY smartphone on the market as none of them have the capability to do what would cause them to be banned.

 

[The_LHC]

Ok but joking aside, what if I cut out the weather report from this morning's newspaper and stick it in my pocket, am I legal then?

Joking aside LHC I think that this is a point that the R & A needs to address as I am sure that only machines capable of computing windspeed, gradients, temperature etc whilst actually on the course were what they intended to ban, but, as it's very new technology, they need to update their rulings which even in a short space of time has fallen behind

Exactly!

To me the rule is to stop the advance of the tech so it does not need to change, distance only is fine

Yes, and that is ALL any current smartphone can do! They CAN'T tell you the current temperature, they CAN'T tell you the current windspeed, so how can they be banned under those rules?

 

[Imurg]

As far as I've tried. You cannot delete the iPhone standard weather app that's preloaded onto the phone. Same with the compass.

So that rules that suggestion out.

But what I still do not understand is these apps cannot tell you something that you didn't already know, weather forecast for example. Its not as if a damn phone can tell you what the weather is doing on the first tee. It's not an anometer, a temperature gauge, or a full weather station. So why ban them?

Okay. There are apps that you can use on a green like a spirit level. But in all honesty it would be pretty obvious if you used it, and wouldn't work unless you 'mapped' out the whole green. That should only take about a day!!

I'm in broad agreement - it's a poor rule, probably made without access to all the details of what these things can and can't do.
But until the R&A look at it and change it, iPhone GPS'ers are breaking the rules if a weather app is present.
Everyone who is using a smartphone-based GPS system needs to check they're within the rules before they use them again in competition.

 

[The_LHC]

Disable your weather apps and you're in the clear.

The rules say that you would be disqualified if your distance device can measure things other than distance as well, even if they are not used.



Chris

Hence the word disable......... Uninstall, delete, get rid of........
No weather app (or whatever) and you've got a legal DMD.

I think the big point here is not whether the rule is good or bad. It's there. It is a rule.
My point is that a lot of people who are using smartphone-based GPS apps could well be breaking the rules without knowing it.

But the point is they AREN'T breaking the rules! The rule bans any device that can measure the temperature and windspeed IN REAL TIME and no phone on the market can do that, ergo they are NOT breaking the rules.

But sooner or later someone will.

Only once a phone with those capabilities has actually been invented and to my knowledge none has.

 

[freddielong]

But they are being developed all the time, there are new apps every day so what happens if there is one developed tomorrow or a smart phone that can and everyone buys it before the R&A react, the R&A would be under pressure to allow it I sure there would be law suits etc, I think the R&A are just setting out there stall in advance

 

[Robobum]

So your phone couldn't access info such as that on the bottom half of this site??

Here

I'm sure it's not the only course with an on site weather station either.

 

[Imurg]

Disable your weather apps and you're in the clear.

The rules say that you would be disqualified if your distance device can measure things other than distance as well, even if they are not used.



Chris

Hence the word disable......... Uninstall, delete, get rid of........
No weather app (or whatever) and you've got a legal DMD.

I think the big point here is not whether the rule is good or bad. It's there. It is a rule.
My point is that a lot of people who are using smartphone-based GPS apps could well be breaking the rules without knowing it.

But the point is they AREN'T breaking the rules! The rule bans any device that can measure the temperature and windspeed IN REAL TIME and no phone on the market can do that, ergo they are NOT breaking the rules.

But sooner or later someone will.

Only once a phone with those capabilities has actually been invented and to my knowledge none has.

So you're going to continue using your iPhone GPS even though it has weather/compass apps installed on it?