Governance - The Integrity of the Competition

[Elaine Thom]

One of our lady members has asked our Club Council if she can sign in to our Ladies Competitions and, not playing with another lady, have her husband mark her card.
She would not be playing within the 'rules of competition which were set and published prior to the start of the season. I think this goes against the spirit of the competition and means she is not playing within the same parameters as all others in the competition. We are a club with gents, ladies and mixed competitions.
Council look as if they are going to allow this. There might be an article in this wee quandary! Comments?

 

[Crow]

I'm more intrigued by her reason for wanting to do this;
Is she a new member?
Has she fallen out with some of the other lady members?
Does her husband give her advice during play?

Otherwise, I'd say that if your competition rules require her to play with other competitors then she should do that. By all means she can play with her husband and put a card in (assuming that he's NOT actaully giving her advice) but she won't be a part of the competition.

 

[upsidedown]

My wife has marked my card in comps at our place in numerous occasions when I've been busy earlier in the day ,not a problem

 

[wjemather]

Usually the marker can be anyone acceptable to the committee. There is no requirement for them to be a fellow competitor, club member, hold a handicap or even be a player - if the committee deems them acceptable, it's fine. My wife has marked my card in club comps several times and she's not a member.

However, if, as you say, the terms of competition specify rounds must be played with and marked by a fellow lady competitor, then that's what needs to happen.

I can't think of any reason to place such restrictions on ordinary club competitions though, as there is no competitive advantage to be gained.

 

[chellie]

Is it a two day comp and she has no other Lady competitor to mark her card on the first day?

Do Ladies have set times to go out and she simply doesn't want to go out with any of the other Ladies?

 

[Elaine Thom]

There is no question about the integrity of the couple. This goes to the heart of understanding the nature of fair play. To be fair to all, competition rules must be the same for all competitors. It is the duty of those in governance to protect the integrity of our competitions. It is also against the spirit of the game to ask for this advantage.

 

[Crow]

What is her reason for not wishing to play with other lady members?
If she has a valid reason then perhaps your Council are justified in allowing it.

 

[wjemather]

There is no question about the integrity of the couple. This goes to the heart of understanding the nature of fair play. To be fair to all, competition rules must be the same for all competitors. It is the duty of those in governance to protect the integrity of our competitions. It is also against the spirit of the game to ask for this advantage.

What advantage is there to having someone other than a fellow competitor mark the card?

It is something that happens frequently in professional golf, including the majors, usually when an odd number make the cut or someone withdraws - commonly someone (e.g. a club member) will play alongside and mark their scorecard, or the player will play alone with an official/volunteer marking their card.

 

[Smiffy]

What advantage is there to having someone other than a fellow competitor mark the card?

I can see a massive advantage personally.
I'd most probably relax and play much better golf with an old friend geeing me along rather than a competitive, possibly better golfer.

 

[clubchamp98]

There is no question about the integrity of the couple. This goes to the heart of understanding the nature of fair play. To be fair to all, competition rules must be the same for all competitors. It is the duty of those in governance to protect the integrity of our competitions. It is also against the spirit of the game to ask for this advantage.

I do understand your point.
She will play a nice game with her partner not under the pressure of competition playing with fellow competitors.
The feathers might fly if she wins though.
But unless your comittiee says otherwise she is doing nothing wrong.
But it could encourage others to do this in future.

As others have said “ why is she asking for this” being part of a club is surley playing comps with your peers.

 

[Banchory Buddha]

There is no question about the integrity of the couple. This goes to the heart of understanding the nature of fair play. To be fair to all, competition rules must be the same for all competitors. It is the duty of those in governance to protect the integrity of our competitions. It is also against the spirit of the game to ask for this advantage.

Totally agree. If your committee allowed this I'd be making strenuous references to the current rules, and asking what other rules you can just ignore if you feel like it?

 

[doublebogey7]

Totally agree. If your committee allowed this I'd be making strenuous references to the current rules, and asking what other rules you can just ignore if you feel like it?

I doubt this person is asking for the rules to be different just for her. More likely she is asking for the rules to be changed as they restricting her ability to take part. If that is the case I cannot see how that is unreasonable. Be useful if the OP to give the full facts which they don't seem to have done. More to this than meets the eye I suspect.

 

[IanM]

Some players are fairly precious about who they play with, but this is a new one on me.

Wonder what the reason is

 

[Foxholer]

There is no question about the integrity of the couple. This goes to the heart of understanding the nature of fair play. To be fair to all, competition rules must be the same for all competitors. It is the duty of those in governance to protect the integrity of our competitions. It is also against the spirit of the game to ask for this advantage.

The bold bit is all that matters! If that's the case, then there is absolutely no advantage, so your last statement holds no weight! And it's highly likely (not having seen the rules. I can't be certain) that the competition rules ARE the same for all competitors!
FWIW, it seems another case of irrelevant 'bitching' that I've observed several times, (as Comp Co-ordinator) in the past where Ladies have been involved. The question that should always be asked in such circumstances is 'Do the rules of the comp prohibit such action?' If they don't, then the action is legit.
To me, there is no 'spirit of the game' issue with the request. In fact, there is more likelihood that those who complain are 'acting against the spirit of the game' imo!

 

[Elaine Thom]

The bold bit is all that matters! If that's the case, then there is absolutely no advantage, so your last statement holds no weight! And it's highly likely (not having seen the rules. I can't be certain) that the competition rules ARE the same for all competitors!
FWIW, it seems another case of irrelevant 'bitching' that I've observed several times, (as Comp Co-ordinator) in the past where Ladies have been involved. The question that should always be asked in such circumstances is 'Do the rules of the comp prohibit such action?' If they don't, then the action is legit.
To me, there is no 'spirit of the game' issue with the request. In fact, there is more likelihood that those who complain are 'acting against the spirit of the game' imo!

 

[Elaine Thom]

Very sorry to see the tone of this thread lowered by the last comment. This kind of dismissive, opinion adds nothing and certainly does not show any depth of thought regarding fair play in competitive golf. Thank you for the other posts, the variety of opinions did give serious food for thought.

 

[Foxholer]

Very sorry to see the tone of this thread lowered by the last comment. This kind of dismissive, opinion adds nothing and certainly does not show any depth of thought regarding fair play in competitive golf. Thank you for the other posts, the variety of opinions did give serious food for thought.

Thanks for the lecture! I'm sorry you feel that way, but, in the role I mentioned above, I simply experienced too many 'appeals' where there'd supposedly been a breach of 'the spirit of the game' that turned out to either be nothing of the sort or simply (reverse) 'gamesmanship'. These ranged from appeals against late arrival penalties specifically written/published to overcome frequent 'offences' to being forced to putt out where the appellant thought a putt should have been given, but wasn't and was subsequently missed! And, unfortunately, almost all of them came from the Ladies section!

The Rules of Golf are, generally, beautifully precise, with the only difficulty generally being finding the one appropriate to the situation. Likewise, Competition situations not specifically covered by The Rules - such as those in the OP or similar/equivalent - should be in Conditions of Competition, either specifically or generally - if foreseen - or referred to the comp 'supervisor' or appropriate body, in this case, apparently, 'the Council'. That appears to be the process that the club is actually carrying out, so I'd suggest you simply abide by their decision. As I highlighted earlier, given the statement wrt the pair's integrity, I see no actual 'advantage' or lack of 'fair play' that you allude to, though the potential does exist and I'm obviously not fully aware of all the info.

FWIW. I'm puzzled why a simple solution, such as 'final group may be a 3-ball if an odd number of entries is received' could not be found/applied. That would certainly eliminate the possibility of collusion. Or is there something, like a personality clash in the section, that you haven't disclosed? And has the competition actually taken place yet?

 

[chellie]

Is it a two day comp and she has no other Lady competitor to mark her card on the first day?

Do Ladies have set times to go out and she simply doesn't want to go out with any of the other Ladies?

The OP hasn't answered my question above. That may help with answers given.

 

[Smiffy]

The OP hasn't answered my question above.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Very sorry to see the tone of this thread lowered by the last comment. This kind of dismissive, opinion adds nothing and certainly does not show any depth of thought regarding fair play in competitive golf. Thank you for the other posts, the variety of opinions did give serious food for thought.

It all comes down to your comp rules

We have ladies comps split over two days - on the second day ( Saturday) at times tbe lady playing in comp doesn’t have another lady available to mark her card so will play with any other member

If the club allows anyone to sign the card and there is no issues with the integrity of the couple then I can’t see the issue - we have family members sign each others cards etc

All down to trust at the end of the day