Governance - The Integrity of the Competition

[Elaine Thom]

Thanks for words of encouragement BB. Our Ladies competition rules were set and published prior to the season starting. They are precise requiring ladies to play with other ladies in the "contested space". Many ladies do not want this basic element of our competitions to be eroded. Ladies run our section on behalf of a Club Council and feel that Council are proposing to dilute the rules of competition. It is not "irrelevant bitching". A lifetime and career in sport means I have a principled, strong sense of fair play.

 

[clubchamp98]

Thanks for words of encouragement BB. Our Ladies competition rules were set and published prior to the season starting. They are precise requiring ladies to play with other ladies in the "contested space". Many ladies do not want this basic element of our competitions to be eroded. Ladies run our section on behalf of a Club Council and feel that Council are proposing to dilute the rules of competition. It is not "irrelevant bitching". A lifetime and career in sport means I have a principled, strong sense of fair play.

That seems fairly straightforward.
Are you saying she has asked the council to change the rules to suit her ?
But the majority of other ladies don’t want that.
If that’s the case then she is wrong imo,

 

[Elaine Thom]

Yes, that's what's happening, removing peer review concept that used to exist. We are a super, busy, vibrant club - rock and hard place for all involved.

 

[clubchamp98]

Yes, that's what's happening, removing peer review concept that used to exist. We are a super, busy, vibrant club - rock and hard place for all involved.

As you say “ladies run the section”
Anyone who wants changes to the rules do you have a procedure.
As I am sure a well run section the council would not want to interfere

 

[Elaine Thom]

Ladies run the section on behalf of the Council and this is the first time they have felt the need to interfere. It has all been a bit rushed and ladies section have not received direct instruction to change, yet. Certainly highlights procedure and policy gaps which if filled, would smooth our our way towards working more closely together. Thread comments have covered many aspects of this thorny topic. It has been really interesting and educational to read the variety of current practices and opinions.

 

[clubchamp98]

Ladies run the section on behalf of the Council and this is the first time they have felt the need to interfere. It has all been a bit rushed and ladies section have not received direct instruction to change, yet. Certainly highlights procedure and policy gaps which if filled, would smooth our our way towards working more closely together. Thread comments have covered many aspects of this thorny topic. It has been really interesting and educational to read the variety of current practices and opinions.

I would think if the council let the ladies run the section on their behalf they would not want to interfere and risk any I’ll feeling by those doing the work.
But if they feel this lady has a genuine case they might have to .
But if it went to a vote what the majority wants should prevail.
The joys of golf club management.

 

[nickjdavis]

I guess a lot depends on the underlying motivation behind the request....is it that the lady in question does not want to play with the other ladies, or is it that she cannot (due to personal or other circumstances) play at the prescribed times, and as a result feels excluded/restricted from playing in Ladies comps.

 

[Foxholer]

Ladies run the section on behalf of the Council and this is the first time they have felt the need to interfere. It has all been a bit rushed and ladies section have not received direct instruction to change, yet. Certainly highlights procedure and policy gaps which if filled, would smooth our our way towards working more closely together. Thread comments have covered many aspects of this thorny topic. It has been really interesting and educational to read the variety of current practices and opinions.

I'm still a bit confused as to what the real issue is.....
If the comp has been running for a decent period of time, then surely an odd number of entries, therefore this problem, would have occurred before - or is this really the first time it has happened.
Q1. If it has happened before, what was the subsequent action/result?
Q2. Or is the problem related to the specific competitor involved? Or her choice of 'marker'?
Q3. Or is it simply that she is not playing under 'identical conditions' as the rest of the field?

As to the hierarchy of authority/resolution....It seems the Council is the overriding authority, but delegates (either specifically or by default) the running of the section - including this comp - to the Ladies Section. The fact that the Council are discussing it, as you infer in the OP, means, to me, that some sort of appeal has been made and they have exercised their override authority. That too is entirely reasonable - unless there is documentation that Ladies Section are entirely responsible for running Ladies comps (not a great idea (and equally bad for Men's ones) imo, as there ought to be an appeal procedure and it's the Council that would ultimately be responsible and have to answer for any bad publicity).

Q4. And again, why not simply make the last group a 3-ball. To exclude that option simply because 'conditions are not identical for all players' would be bizarre imo, as they are never (absolutely) identical in a Golf competition!
Oh and...Q5. Is their some sort of 'committee' within the Ladies section that runs and makes decisions about comps - either specific or by default. If not, how are decisions made?

And a Q generated from another of your posts.... What did/do you mean by 'peer review' in post 23? That term does have a meaning for me (I've been involved in many of them relating to work), but have never associated it with Golf comps! Can you explain what you mean wrt this topic? Is it a democratic vote of participants perhaps?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I guess a lot depends on the underlying motivation behind the request....is it that the lady in question does not want to play with the other ladies, or is it that she cannot (due to personal or other circumstances) play at the prescribed times, and as a result feels excluded/restricted from playing in Ladies comps.

If the former, then tough sheet, if the latter then she needs to write tio the club asking for a change in policy, presumably an AGM item at most clubs. IMO you can't change that mid-season unilaterally

 

[nickjdavis]

If the former, then tough sheet, if the latter then she needs to write tio the club asking for a change in policy, presumably an AGM item at most clubs. IMO you can't change that mid-season unilaterally

I do not disagree.

but without the clarity from the OP, pretty much everything we might say in terms of advice/guidance/opinion, is pure speculation, without the full facts of the matter being known.

 

[Foxholer]

If the former, then tough sheet, if the latter then she needs to write tio the club asking for a change in policy, presumably an AGM item at most clubs. IMO you can't change that mid-season unilaterally

Or it could simply be an instance of a condition that hadn't been considered when the 'rules' were agreed and for one reason or another the request was rejected. While an appeal to the Council seems quite a reasonable consequence - and the Council appeared to accept that they have the ultimate duty to decide on the matter - I don't see this as something that needs a GM to decide. There's still, imo, not really enough detailed info and I'm disappointed that my questions in post 28 haven't been answered.

All that said, I may be negatively affected/a bit distrustful after my own experiences as a Competitions Coordinator at an old club. And have to admit that whenever I see somewhat woolly words/phases such as 'Governance', 'Integrity (or Spirit) of the Competition' or others like 'Spirit of the Game' used it raises a warning flag in my mind as being simply an arguable opinion. 'Is it against the Rules' is far simpler. There's been some other terms that I don't associate with Golf too, but that may simply be geographic - is it a Scottish, or Irish club perchance? The phrases 'peer review' and 'contested space' are examples.