Golf Random Irritations

[Steve Wilkes]

Paul J said he gets an extra shot off yellows vs whites. If he got that wrong then I must have missed it.

Roll on the day when CR is taken into account when working out Course Handicaps, then he would be getting 2 shots more off the Whites, problem solved
It won't make any difference to his chances against others or his Handicap Index, but will make him feel better

 

[PJ87]

Roll on the day when CR is taken into account when working out Course Handicaps, then he would be getting 2 shots more off the Whites, problem solved
It won't make any difference to his chances against others or his Handicap Index, but will make him feel better

At least then we can correctly call it a world handicap system

Problem we have is we were sold a system that's different from what we have ...

I get more shots at courses near me than are a lot easier and people come to ours which is tougher and get less shots and get put off a bit

All because of a simple formula error.

Where as if you had the course rating in the calculation it would be what everyone thought

 

[Slab]

Unfortunately the guys I play with get Billy big balls and think we should play off blacks all time

Where as I'm of the view whites max .. black only for club champs

Yeah I see them all the time too

Usually tourists who say 'I want to play the course as it was designed' guff and often means a slow field (full credit to the 'players' who can cope properly & play courses well over 7000)

I'd like to tell the Billy BB's, why not give the designer some credit that he actually designed the course to be played from several sets of tees

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I’m going to make a sweeping generalisation here. But it is based entirely on my experience of playing club knockouts over the last 2 years.

Retired people are a pain in the arse to organise a match against. Even when you think you have something sorted and a time booked they want to check or change the time or date at the last minute.

Theoretically they should be the most flexible, but they are not. Yet get grumpy when an you can’t play at 11:30 on a Tuesday morning as that is the only time they have in their (literal) diary in the next three weeks. I’m absolutely convinced some don’t want to play, but just want to be such a pain in the backside that you concede without playing.

On the other hand, everyone under the age of 50 seems to be able to sort a time in 2 messages or a 2 minute phone call.

I love match play, but I’m seriously considering not bothering with the handicap knockouts next year as it’s too much hassle.
Looking at the entries this year. There are far fewer than last year.

 

[PJ87]

I’m going to make a sweeping generalisation here. But it is based entirely on my experience of playing club knockouts over the last 2 years.

Retired people are a pain in the arse to organise a match against. Even when you think you have something sorted and a time booked they want to check or change the time or date at the last minute.

Theoretically they should be the most flexible, but they are not. Yet get grumpy when an you can’t play at 11:30 on a Tuesday morning as that is the only time they have in their (literal) diary in the next three weeks. I’m absolutely convinced some don’t want to play, but just want to be such a pain in the backside that you concede without playing.

On the other hand, everyone under the age of 50 seems to be able to sort a time in 2 messages or a 2 minute phone call.

I love match play, but I’m seriously considering not bothering with the handicap knockouts next year as it’s too much hassle.
Looking at the entries this year. There are far fewer than last year.

I play with a group of people and it's 10:30 every Tuesday and Thursday

They are all retired bar 1 who does split shifts and can make that time

They don't play the other days .. very annoying sometimes lol

 

[PJ87]

Yeah I see them all the time too

Usually tourists who say 'I want to play the course as it was designed' guff and often means a slow field (full credit to the 'players' who can cope properly & play courses well over 7000)

I'd like to tell the Billy BB's, why not give the designer some credit that he actually designed the course to be played from several sets of tees

We keep meaning to do Chris' super 6 .. a pp of ours called Chris suggested random draw and do 6 off blacks 6 off yellows 6 off whites one day for a laugh

 

[Voyager EMH]

No course is "harder" or "easier" than another.
The Course Ratings and Slope Ratings make them all the same degree of difficulty for all players.

The notion of "getting shots" on a course, or from a differing set of tees, is a misconception or a remnant of a conception from the previous handicap system.

You have a place on the handicap index scale. Your place on this scale remains the same relative to others whatever the Slope Rating is.
The gaps between people on this scale will become larger with Slope Ratings above 113 and smaller for Slope Ratings below 113.

Your handicap is for playing with and against other players - not against the course.
Against the course none of us has a handicap (save for a marginal hole where nett double bogey may apply) we simply return a gross score.

 

[Orikoru]

No course is "harder" or "easier" than another.
The Course Ratings and Slope Ratings make them all the same degree of difficulty for all players.

The notion of "getting shots" on a course, or from a differing set of tees, is a misconception or a remnant of a conception from the previous handicap system.

You have a place on the handicap index scale. Your place on this scale remains the same relative to others whatever the Slope Rating is.
The gaps between people on this scale will become larger with Slope Ratings above 113 and smaller for Slope Ratings below 113.

Your handicap is for playing with and against other players - not against the course.
Against the course none of us has a handicap (save for a marginal hole where nett double bogey may apply) we simply return a gross score.

So you don't play Stableford then?

Saying we 'don't get shots' is nothing but pedantry against the common vernacular. It's like people who say 'you cannot declare a ball lost' - technically true but it's just a common way of saying you're not looking for your ball, so it's lost. If my playing handicap is 14 for my Stableford comp I'm playing, then in layman's terms I get 14 shots. I'm not sure who you think it benefits to try and argue that it's not the right lingo or whatever. It all amounts to the same thing.

 

[PJ87]

When you read some of the replies

 

[Deleted member 29109]

View attachment 48475

When you read some of the replies

Maybe now you’ll think before you post!

 

[Voyager EMH]

So you don't play Stableford then?

Saying we 'don't get shots' is nothing but pedantry against the common vernacular. It's like people who say 'you cannot declare a ball lost' - technically true but it's just a common way of saying you're not looking for your ball, so it's lost. If my playing handicap is 14 for my Stableford comp I'm playing, then in layman's terms I get 14 shots. I'm not sure who you think it benefits to try and argue that it's not the right lingo or whatever. It all amounts to the same thing.

Your 14 shots in a Stableford comp are relative to the number of shots others are "getting".
"Strokes Received" is how I see it printed on scorecards.
This is for competition purposes with and against other players.

Your score against the course is your gross score and your nett score and Stableford points are not recorded. It matters not what your "strokes received" is in this process. (nod to NDBL)

Taking note of one's gross score is what many golfers wish to ignore. They much prefer to think about their nett score or stableford points. This is not unusual and if this is what they choose to do then that is their choice. It is what we all did in the previous system.

However, it does lead to misunderstanding or misconceiving an essential part of the new handicap system. ie You do not "get shots" against the course.
Your playing handicap, or strokes received, is relative to other players you are playing with and against, and that is its purpose.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Who cares? It's just odd isn't it. It's backwards.

Apparently England Golf chose to do it this way.

 

[PJ87]

Your 14 shots in a Stableford comp are relative to the number of shots others are "getting".
"Strokes Received" is how I see it printed on scorecards.
This is for competition purposes with and against other players.

Your score against the course is your gross score and your nett score and Stableford points are not recorded. It matters not what your "strokes received" is in this process. (nod to NDBL)

Taking note of one's gross score is what many golfers wish to ignore. They much prefer to think about their nett score or stableford points. This is not unusual and if this is what they choose to do then that is their choice. It is what we all did in the previous system.

However, it does lead to misunderstanding or misconceiving an essential part of the new handicap system. ie You do not "get shots" against the course.
Your playing handicap, or strokes received, is relative to other players you are playing with and against and that is its purpose.

Yet it's all about adjusted gross score. So actual gross is irrelevant. Anything above a nett double counts for the same.

 

[Orikoru]

Your 14 shots in a Stableford comp are relative to the number of shots others are "getting".
"Strokes Received" is how I see it printed on scorecards.
This is for competition purposes with and against other players.

Your score against the course is your gross score and your nett score and Stableford points are not recorded. It matters not what your "strokes received" is in this process. (nod to NDBL)

Taking note of one's gross score is what many golfers wish to ignore. They much prefer to think about their nett score or stableford points. This is not unusual and if this is what they choose to do then that is their choice. It is what we all did in the previous system.

However, it does lead to misunderstanding or misconceiving an essential part of the new handicap system. ie You do not "get shots" against the course.
Your playing handicap, or strokes received, is relative to other players you are playing with and against and that is its purpose.

Who cares if you get shots on the course or other people or what, you still get them. Why overcomplicate it when it makes bugger all difference.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I wish I got more shots off the forward tees.....

Why?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Who cares if you get shots on the course or other people or what, you still get them. Why overcomplicate it when it makes bugger all difference.

My attempt to simplify my view, rather than cause overcomplication, by way of a few typed sentences, has clearly failed.
I should apologise, if that is appropriate.
Forgive me, please.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Quick sums say

Off yellows (cr 69.6) the plus 4 would be off 3.96

Off whites (cr 71.8) the same person would be off 3.92

So each time they would give the course 4 shots but to achieve "course rating" would be harder off the whites no? As it's 2 shots more

Stop calling it a World Handicapping System.

I call it the "England Golf World Handicap Sub-system".

 

[Voyager EMH]

Yet it's all about adjusted gross score. So actual gross is irrelevant. Anything above a nett double counts for the same.

Yep.

So if you had any such holes you can take that into account and, for example, say "88, but adjusted gross 86" to describe how you played against the course.

Or merely quote your score differential achieved - but I don't think we are ready to accept that as a description of play against the course at the moment, even though it is the best one.

 

[IanM]

Back to other irritations.... someone has just tried to flog me a Scotty that was so poor a copy, it could have had Cameron with a "K!"

 

[PJ87]

Back to other irritations.... someone has just tried to flog me a Scotty that was so poor a copy, it could have had Cameron with a "K!"

What is it about Camerons and letting you down or selling a lie?