GCW Rant

[Capella]

Just writing a presentation on 'big data' for my job. And it got me thinking that this could solve the issue, or at least highlight where the problems are.

Before long it should not be difficult to track where every golfer out on the course. Game golf, garmin, skycaddie and every mobile phone is providing this data. You can then see where the hold ups are, who is causing them and take appropriate action. You can even start correlating the speed of play with things like the weather, pin positions, individual habits (is person A always a slow player no matter where the pins are or when they tee off), handicap level of the golfer (do the higher handicappers actually go slower or is that a myth), optimal starting time gaps etc etc. So you can build up a pretty accurate picture of what variables influence slow play and how you can set the course up or starting times to prevent it if it looks like being a problem on certain days.

I'm sure with golf clubs normal habit of embracing new ideas to solve age old problems this will be happening very soon so in a few years time slow play will be a thing of the past.

Yeah ... you're on to something here. I can picture it: a warning system informs one of several marshalls that the fourball on the 13th tee has fallen behind according to the GPS data of their iPhones. The marshall mounts his cart and whips accross the course to reprimand the culprits and the 15 min discussion that follows in the middle of the fairway is really going to speed things up for those waiting behind ...

 

[bobmac]

Bob it's quite simple - I can't even do a drawn comp because members don't want to be dictated when they want to play

You don't dictate anything, you give them the choice. If you want a 3 hour round, you play early. If you want to take your time, play later.

Your whole idea goes up in smoke when someone who is clearly slow doesn't want to go out later so goes out earlier

If a slow player chooses to go out early and gets dragged and hurried around in 3 hours, he wont enjoy it so may choose a later time next week.

It doesn't need to dictate to players when to play - the onus must be on the players to be aware of the pace of play protocols.

How has that worked so far?

Best just not try anything then

 

[Hacker Khan]

Yeah ... you're on to something here. I can picture it: a warning system informs one of several marshalls that the fourball on the 13th tee has fallen behind according to the GPS data of their iPhones. The marshall mounts his cart and whips accross the course to reprimand the culprits and the 15 min discussion that follows in the middle of the fairway is really going to speed things up for those waiting behind ...

So you saying marshalls can't tell players to speed up as that will cause longer delays?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You don't dictate anything, you give them the choice. If you want a 3 hour round, you play early. If you want to take your time, play later.



If a slow player chooses to go out early and gets dragged and hurried around in 3 hours, he wont enjoy it so may choose a later time next week.




How has that worked so far?

Best just not try anything then

We have tried stuff and so far it's improving things by informing the players of their responsibility

 

[bobmac]

We have tried stuff and so far it's improving things by informing the players of their responsibility

I wish you well and I hope you see improvements, but I cant help thinking you'll still have the fast guys moaning because its still too slow and the slow guys complaining that they're being pushed from behind.

Bill
Morning pro, 7.30 tee time for next Saturday please.
Pro
Morning Bill. You know that 7-9 is now the sprinters section where you have to be round in 3 hours. Its our new speed play inititive.
Bill
3 hours?!!!! sod that. 9.08 please

 

[macca64]

In our comps, we asked to put our finishing time down, don't really know if it speeds anything up, never takes more than 3 1/2 hrs usually,

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I wish you well and I hope you see improvements, but I cant help thinking you'll still have the fast guys moaning because its still too slow and the slow guys complaining that they're being pushed from behind.

Bill
Morning pro, 7.30 tee time for next Saturday please.
Pro
Morning Bill. You know that 7-9 is now the sprinters section where you have to be round in 3 hours. Its our new speed play inititive.
Bill
3 hours?!!!! sod that. 9.08 please

Bill

Morning pro , 7:30 tee time for next Saturday please

Pro

Morning Bill - you know that 7-9 is now sprinters section where you have to be round in 3 hours - it's our new speed play initive

Bill

3 hours ?! I can't do that but I can't tee off later than 7:30 because I have babysitting to do whilst the wife goes out or I have shopping to do or I have football to watch - sod that I'm leaving the golf club and going to somewhere where I can play at 7:30 and not play speed golf - I'll take my money elsewhere and so will my swindle.

 

[bobmac]

Bill

Morning pro , 7:30 tee time for next Saturday please

Pro

Morning Bill - you know that 7-9 is now sprinters section where you have to be round in 3 hours - it's our new speed play initive

Bill

3 hours ?! I can't do that but I can't tee off later than 7:30 because I have babysitting to do whilst the wife goes out or I have shopping to do or I have football to watch - sod that I'm leaving the golf club and going to somewhere where I can play at 7:30 and not play speed golf - I'll take my money elsewhere and so will my swindle.

Tesco.co.uk she can shop online or all afternoon
Sky+ and record the football.

12.30
Barman
Afternoon Bill, how did you get on today?
Bill
Terrible. teed off off at 8 behind two slow groups. Took 4.30mins

The following week
12.30
Barman
Afternoon Bill, how did you get on
Bill.
Not bad. Teed ff at 9.08 behind the sprinters and popped round in 3.30

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Tesco.co.uk she can shop online or all afternoon
Sky+ and record the football.

12.30
Barman
Afternoon Bill, how did you get on today?
Bill
Terrible. teed off off at 8 behind two slow groups. Took 4.30mins

The following week
12.30
Barman
Afternoon Bill, how did you get on
Bill.
Not bad. Teed ff at 9.08 behind the sprinters and popped round in 3.30

we can go on all day long bob

I play at a club that has swindles throughout the day - they all play at the same times each week and play with mates with no tee bookings for social golf

In comps the swindles lump themselves together

Suggest having specific times for specific pace wouldn't ever work because the swindle members play at different pace

Bills swindle for example all go out between 7:30 and 8 and they are done by 11:30 to 12 and then sort themselves out.

It's not a workable model to say to Bill - play later , forget your swindle buddies that you have played with every week for 40 years , forget all your plans for the Saturday afternoon because we have designated fast pace play only between 7-9. Bill wants to spend the afternoon with his family , he shouldn't ever have to play later to go round at a nice pace .

 

[bobmac]

we can go on all day long bob

We sure could and you would keep coming up with excuses why something you have never tried would never work.
I'm not saying the slower guys tee off in the afternoon, just an hour later to let the sprinters go.
And if you see my example above, Bill finished at 12.30 both weeks.
If you could guarantee someone a 3 hour round on a Saturday teeing off at 9 am, you'll get no shortage of takers.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We sure could and you would keep coming up with excuses why something you have never tried would never work.
I'm not saying the slower guys tee off in the afternoon, just an hour later to let the sprinters go.
And if you see my example above, Bill finished at 12.30 both weeks.
If you could guarantee someone a 3 hour round on a Saturday teeing off at 9 am, you'll get no shortage of takers.

Bob we don't book tee times - it's roll up on the tee - the members don't want a tee booking system.

The swindles have been going for decades now and they all have their own time they all turn up at the tee or in the club.

It's not a method that has any chance of working at my club

Because I expect it's something that hasn't been tried at many clubs I'm golfb to suggest it's a model that wouldn't work at many clubs.

You will never guarantee someone playing in 4 balls at a 3 hour round.

 

[bobmac]

Because I expect it's something that hasn't been tried at many clubs I'm golfb to suggest it's a model that wouldn't work at many clubs.

If you read other posts on this thread, they suggest it does.
Anyway, I've said my piece so I'll finish.
Good luck.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

One of the points I was trying to make is do the majority of modern day golfers (not just forumers) think that pace of play is a problem.

If, as I suspect, they don't then further discussion is pointless as nothing will happen no matter how much many of us may wish.

 

[JezzE]

Not impressed. Sounded too much like a spotty teenager trying a bit of bullying. As for being tracked around the course, a bit big brother. I'd be leaving it by the first tee, "sorry it fell off."

+1 for me...

 

[Hacker Khan]

Not impressed. Sounded too much like a spotty teenager trying a bit of bullying. As for being tracked around the course, a bit big brother. I'd be leaving it by the first tee, "sorry it fell off."

it may be but it will be to old farts like us. But then again I am willing to bet over 75% of us already have some kind of device that is tracking our GPS when we play golf. And to the next generation it will be second nature as they are used to living their lives in the virtual world.

To me there just comes a point where the 'now come on chaps, remember etiquette, let's hurry it up a bit' approach just does not work, and we seem to be there. We can already control massive traffic flows of 1000s of cars pretty well, it should not be a big stretch to do that for a few golfers on a course if all else fails.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

it may be but it will be to old farts like us. But then again I am willing to bet over 75% of us already have some kind of device that is tracking our GPS when we play golf. And to the next generation it will be second nature as they are used to living their lives in the virtual world.

To me there just comes a point where the 'now come on chaps, remember etiquette, let's hurry it up a bit' approach just does not work, and we seem to be there. We can already control massive traffic flows of 1000s of cars pretty well, it should not be a big stretch to do that for a few golfers on a course if all else fails.

I agree that there will be a modicum of big brother through GPS devices in the years to come IFmanufacturers, players and clubs all work together to encompass this. However we're no further forward with this than we were twenty years ago. Players still refuse to accept they are the problem and it's something that so and so does.

As for making players play at specific time based on pace of play, it's a recipe to lose members. We don't have booked times other than comps which are drawn anyway so how does the club police this for weekend social games other than introducing booked times which would be universally opposed

 

[palindromicbob]

I want to hear more about Bill's day.

 

[drdel]

OK I'll bite - much as I am fed up with the slow play discussion.

My mates and I play as quickly as is comfortable. We sometimes visit a new challenging by its nature it can take a tad longer.

Of course golf courses can make their courses easier: remove streams, shrubs, trees, bunkers and mow all the rough so we don't loose balls. The fact that playing such a course would be as boring as heck would not concern the sprinters; the golf course's business model might well suffer.

 

[Beezerk]

I want to hear more about Bill's day.

Died in his sleep sadly, was stressed over slow play and suffered a heart attack.

 

[BubbaP]

This may be a foolish question, but what are these guys abbreviating to GCW?

It came up on a thread a few weeks back and I concluded it related to anchors