Flags Out????

[nickjdavis]

The lifters caused untold damage to our holes because folks wouldn't use them properly.

They would lift the ball out and then let the device fall back into the hole due to gravity instead of lowering it gently themselves...invariably the device would catch the edge of the hole and eventually break it down.

One evening I was teeing off on one hole and watched two guys putt out an on adjacent hole....both balls were in the hole, and one player ripped the lifting device out of the hole so hard that both balls jumped up to waist height where one of them was caught by the player. Unfortunately the violent lifting of the device again caught the edge of the hole removing turf. I did wander over to them and pointed out ~(in a friendly casual manner) what was happening and why they should not do what they were doing, but all I got was them saying that they were not doing what I was "accusing" them of and what business was it of mine anyway.

Best thing we did when we got rid of the lifting devices and allowed players to use their own discretion whether to remove flags or not (a lot of players by this time were so fed up with bounce outs that they were taking them out anyway).

 

[Orikoru]

Personally hope the rakes never come back. Haven't had to play a plugged lie in a bunker for 18 months!

 

[Orikoru]

The lifters caused untold damage to our holes because folks wouldn't use them properly.

They would lift the ball out and then let the device fall back into the hole due to gravity instead of lowering it gently themselves...invariably the device would catch the edge of the hole and eventually break it down.

One evening I was teeing off on one hole and watched two guys putt out an on adjacent hole....both balls were in the hole, and one player ripped the lifting device out of the hole so hard that both balls jumped up to waist height where one of them was caught by the player. Unfortunately the violent lifting of the device again caught the edge of the hole removing turf. I did wander over to them and pointed out ~(in a friendly casual manner) what was happening and why they should not do what they were doing, but all I got was them saying that they were not doing what I was "accusing" them of and what business was it of mine anyway.

Best thing we did when we got rid of the lifting devices and allowed players to use their own discretion whether to remove flags or not (a lot of players by this time were so fed up with bounce outs that they were taking them out anyway).

Said it all along, but lifting devices were an absolutely shocking idea for a multitude of reasons. I hate those things. Clearly the better solution was the foam inserts to raise the bottom of the cup. Simple and effective.

 

[HampshireHog]

We have had mandatory mini rakes throughout lock down so I haven’t experienced pick and place in bunkers.

I was commenting the other day how nice it was to have gone 18 months without having a crappy shot in a bunker due to an ill positioned rake. I’d genuinely be happy if we never re-introduced course rakes.

 

[Neilds]

The lifters caused untold damage to our holes because folks wouldn't use them properly.

They would lift the ball out and then let the device fall back into the hole due to gravity instead of lowering it gently themselves...invariably the device would catch the edge of the hole and eventually break it down.

One evening I was teeing off on one hole and watched two guys putt out an on adjacent hole....both balls were in the hole, and one player ripped the lifting device out of the hole so hard that both balls jumped up to waist height where one of them was caught by the player. Unfortunately the violent lifting of the device again caught the edge of the hole removing turf. I did wander over to them and pointed out ~(in a friendly casual manner) what was happening and why they should not do what they were doing, but all I got was them saying that they were not doing what I was "accusing" them of and what business was it of mine anyway.

Best thing we did when we got rid of the lifting devices and allowed players to use their own discretion whether to remove flags or not (a lot of players by this time were so fed up with bounce outs that they were taking them out anyway).

The lifters just sit there minding their own business, never damaged the course at all. What caused the damage is idiots not using them properly Seen it loads of times, must be a competition to see how high you can get the ball

 

[clubchamp98]

Risk awareness, or risk perception?

Our club has the "riser" things in the holes. My regular 4 ball (2 blokes in 50s and 2 in their 60s) have been using them in the prescribed way, using the putter to lift up the handle to remove the ball.

Played last night with 2 chaps, late 20s/early 30s. Completely ignored the levers, just picked the ball from the hole.

Which is sensible? I frankly have no idea! Safe to put the rakes back out and remove the flag? Nope, no idea either. Weird world we live in!

Awareness some are very aware of the risk.
Some don’t give a ****.
Some are just idiots you can’t change that.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The lifters just sit there minding their own business, never damaged the course at all. What caused the damage is idiots not using them properly Seen it loads of times, must be a competition to see how high you can get the ball

Correct. The lifters on our flagsticks will not damage a hole if used even vaguely carefully. I have on more than one occasion pointed out that damage can be caused when a playing companion flicks it up in the air - the ball is thrown out and the lifter is allowed to freely clatter down. As I point out to the miscreant - Its a lifter, not a thrower. I can’t be bothered when folk use them carelessly. All that is required is a tiny and momentary bit of care. Lift and let back down. Easy.

I have absolutely no concerns about not being able to take the flag out when back in the day when the ‘flag can be left in’ rule was introduced I usually had the flag removed. I didn’t like putting with the flag in. The restriction imposed by the pandemic finds me now completely comfortable with putting with flag in. Now that I am used to I suspect that if and when flags can once again be removed I may well just continue putting with them in.

 

[clubchamp98]

I would not fancy using a £350 scotty or any putter with a paint finish to lift them things.
But using the grip end is unhygienic.
Just foam in ours works perfectly well.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I would not fancy using a £350 scotty or any putter with a paint finish to lift them things.
But using the grip end is unhygienic.
Just foam in ours works perfectly well.

Ours have a ‘soft‘ plastic sleeve over the metal lifting arm, risk of damage to putter is therefore low.

 

[clubchamp98]

Correct. The lifters on our flagsticks will not damage a hole if used even vaguely carefully. I have on more than one occasion pointed out that damage can be caused when a playing companion flicks it up in the air - the ball is thrown out and the lifter is allowed to freely clatter down. As I point out to the miscreant - Its a lifter, not a thrower. I can’t be bothered when folk use them carelessly. All that is required is a tiny and momentary bit of care. Lift and let back down. Easy.

I have absolutely no concerns about not being able to take the flag out when back in the day when the ‘flag can be left in’ rule was introduced I usually had the flag removed. I didn’t like putting with the flag in. The restriction imposed by the pandemic finds me now completely comfortable with putting with flag in. Now that I am used to I suspect that if and when flags can once again be removed I may well just continue putting with them in.

I have got used to it over a certain length.
But I still don’t like the flag in for short putts.
I seem to try and get the ball between the lip and the flag.
This causes many lip outs that don’t really touch the flag.
It’s me not the hole but I just don’t like hitting the flag with the ball.
Strange how some things in the mental side of the game seem harder to change.

 

[Jamesbrown]

I think to settle it, it should be in the rules that the group should vote on flagstick in or out, and in the event of a tie a coin flip

I am vehemently flag in.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think to settle it, it should be in the rules that the group should vote on flagstick in or out, and in the event of a tie a coin flip

I am vehemently flag in.

Or people are allowed to continue to have the flag how they want and everyone is happy then ?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I have got used to it over a certain length.
But I still don’t like the flag in for short putts.
I seem to try and get the ball between the lip and the flag.
This causes many lip outs that don’t really touch the flag.
It’s me not the hole but I just don’t like hitting the flag with the ball.
Strange how some things in the mental side of the game seem harder to change.

The risk for short putts was demonstrated for all to see in the U18 champs at our place last weekend when our local lass elite golfer bounced a 1ft putt into the middle of the hole off the flag...that really unsettled her and her putting seemed a bit off for the rest of the day and may have contributed to her coming second. She will of course deny that it was the cause but it certainly rattled her.

 

[SammmeBee]

Said it all along, but lifting devices were an absolutely shocking idea for a multitude of reasons. I hate those things. Clearly the better solution was the foam inserts to raise the bottom of the cup. Simple and effective.

And a waste of money…..but golf clubs are great at that!

 

[davidy233]

Raked a bunker tonight - still not taken a flag out and may not again. Also confirmed what I thought I had noticed earlier in the week - we don't have foam inserts in the holes anymore.

 

[Orikoru]

Well, our club just sent us an email including these words:

Boris Johnson has recently announced Covid restrictions in England will be relaxed from the 19th of July. This means from the 19th the pins can be taken out, or attended, and the rakes can be replaced in the bunkers, no more pick and place.

That's going to take some getting used to again.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well, our club just sent us an email including these words:

Boris Johnson has recently announced Covid restrictions in England will be relaxed from the 19th of July. This means from the 19th the pins can be taken out, or attended, and the rakes can be replaced in the bunkers, no more pick and place.

That's going to take some getting used to again.

Has the club had the update from England Golf then ? Or are they making presumptions based on what PM said

Whilst we expect pins etc to be back to normal certainly not going to communicate until confirmed

 

[The Dog.]

Our club has had rakes and pins out for about two weeks. It is lovely to have the flag out for putting again.

 

[Orikoru]

Has the club had the update from England Golf then ? Or are they making presumptions based on what PM said

Whilst we expect pins etc to be back to normal certainly not going to communicate until confirmed

No idea! He might have jumped the gun I suppose! But as we have seen in this topic (including post above this one), some clubs have gone there already anyway.

 

[clubchamp98]

Well, our club just sent us an email including these words:

Boris Johnson has recently announced Covid restrictions in England will be relaxed from the 19th of July. This means from the 19th the pins can be taken out, or attended, and the rakes can be replaced in the bunkers, no more pick and place.

That's going to take some getting used to again.

Yes all of us used to having a nice lie in the bunkers will need to practice fried eggs again.