Five over par - Pick up

[Deleted member 16999]

I wasn't meaning that in relation to scoring, but in relation to pace of play.

At many courses a lot of time is spent looking for balls. This also reduces the enjoyment. Obviously you aren't going to do away with all rough or places that a ball can be lost... but just some sensible / less penal areas (especially in places where people might not be able to see a wide shot land) that are common areas of ball searching. And there is obviously a difference between rough in terms of total hay or thick matted grass that hasn't had a machine through it before and an area that is mown down to a couple of inches every week or so.

With regards to pace of play, there is no magic bullet. It is marginal gains and no one should be expecting people to run or rush round the course.
* correct gaps between groups on the 1st tee
* in social games, the guy marking the card never gets the flag and whoever holes out 1st or 2nd being ready for the flag
* ready golf and people being ready to play (I'm guilty of not having my glove on in time)
* on the green, cleaning and marking your ball as early as you can (assuming you are not in anyones line)
* leaving the flag in for long putts
* ideally, fewer areas a ball can be lost
* ideally fewer blind shots
* people playing provisionals at the correct times
* picking up when they are well over for a hole

None of these on their own is suddenly going to shave half an hour off a round, but I think if there is an awareness and an attitude to get on with it, things could improve all round.

Yes, but this about max score comps and their impact, it’s not been brought in as the answer to slow play, just adding another option to help clubs.

It’s very dificult to change the attitudes and perception of people who have played or been involved in sport for years, flag attended thread, VAR in Football etc, but if you are new to a sport you tend to “accept” the way the game is played, if a newcomer knows they must pick up or write a particular No down when playing different formats in golf, then in the future you will have a culture change and less of those insisting on putting out for a 11 or above.

 

[rulefan]

Slightly confused with wether or not they can win a comp if they pick up.
This happened in last seasons lady captains day competition, I won with a nett 70, 2nd had a nett 71 with an 11 on a par 4.

So would she have been able to pick up after 9 giving her a nett 69 and been eligible to win 1st prize, unfair on me, or would she have non been eligible to win a prize which would have been unfair on her when she actually play the hole out and won 2nd prize,

Seems a bad idea to me.

If it is declared to be a "Maximum Score" competition, then of course they can win. That's the whole point.

A player who does not complete a hole (often referred to informally as “picking up”) will not be disqualified, but simply gets the maximum score for the hole.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Some confusion here.

The R&A/USGA say
A player who does not complete a hole (often referred to informally as “picking up”) will not be disqualified, but simply gets the maximum score for the hole.

The Maximum Score form of play will be unlikely to be used for elite play, but it may be useful in many other contexts, such as for play by beginners or golfers who are less skilled or experienced and, more generally, for club level and day-to-day play when pace of play is a particular concern.

@rulefan

Do you have a link to the R&A ruling where it states the above ?

I have seen the USGA one but can’t find the R&A one

Obviously right now there is the panicking about it being used in scratch comps etc

This is what I have found in R&A


Maximum Score is a form of stroke play where a player’s or side's score for a hole is capped at a maximum number of strokes set by the Committee, such as two times par, a fixed number or net double bogey.

The normal Rules for stroke play in Rules 1-20 apply, as modified by these specific Rules. Rule 21.2is written for:

• Scratch competitions, but can be adapted for handicap competitions as well, and
• Individual play, but can be adapted for competitions involving partners, as modified by Rules 22 (Foursomes) and 23 (Four-Ball), and for team competitions, as modified by Rule 24.

 

[Old Skier]

@rulefan

Do you have a link to the R&A ruling where it states the above ?

I have seen the USGA one but can’t find the R&A one

Obviously right now there is the panicking about it being used in scratch comps etc

This is what I have found in R&A


Maximum Score is a form of stroke play where a player’s or side's score for a hole is capped at a maximum number of strokes set by the Committee, such as two times par, a fixed number or net double bogey.

The normal Rules for stroke play in Rules 1-20 apply, as modified by these specific Rules. Rule 21.2is written for:

• 
  
  • Scratch competitions, but can be adapted for handicap competitions as well, and
  
  
  • Individual play, but can be adapted for competitions involving partners, as modified by Rules 22 (Foursomes) and 23 (Four-Ball), and for team competitions, as modified by Rule 24.

Is this what your after

http://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Max-Score-Competitions.pdf

 

[Deleted member 16999]

If it is declared to be a "Maximum Score" competition, then of course they can win. That's the whole point.

A player who does not complete a hole (often referred to informally as “picking up”) will not be disqualified, but simply gets the maximum score for the hole.

Surely they can only win if the CoC allow?

 

[rulefan]

Surely they can only win if the CoC allow?

Is a CoC required for a competition declared to be stableford ?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Is a CoC required for a competition declared to be stableford ?

That doesn’t answer my question.

I asked in the rules thread if a qualifying comp could be restricted to handicap, ie, recent member had died and family requested an annual event in their memory, asked for it to be a qualifier with max handicap 18. Answer given was CONGU didn’t permit qualifiers were people were to play off wrong handicaps, but how the prizes were awarded was down to the Club.
Therefore why can’t that be stipulated by a club for max handicap comps?

 

[rulefan]

That doesn’t answer my question.

I asked in the rules thread if a qualifying comp could be restricted to handicap, ie, recent member had died and family requested an annual event in their memory, asked for it to be a qualifier with max handicap 18. Answer given was CONGU didn’t permit qualifiers were people were to play off wrong handicaps, but how the prizes were awarded was down to the Club.
Therefore why can’t that be stipulated by a club for max handicap comps?

What sort of words are you expecting to see in a CoC?

Players won't being playing off wrong handicaps. A max score comp simply means the player may pick up after a certain number of strokes (gross or net depending on whether it is a gross or net competition max score competition). The same as in stableford except that the 'max score' is not necessarily the same as stableford.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Is this what your after

http://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Max-Score-Competitions.pdf

Nope that’s the Congu one - want the R&A to see if they say the same as the USGA - @rulefan mentioned the R&A so I’m guessing there is a link to what they recommend the Comps can be used for ( like the USGA have )!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

What sort of words are you expecting to see in a CoC?

Players won't being playing off wrong handicaps. A max score comp simply means the player may pick up after a certain number of strokes (gross or net depending on whether it is a gross or net competition max score competition). The same as in stableford except that the 'max score' is not necessarily the same as stableford.

Maybe something along the lines of “competitors failing to hole out and entering a maximum score for 1 or more holes will not be eligible to win the competition and their scorecard used for handicap purposes only”

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Maybe something along the lines of “competitors failing to hole out and entering a maximum score for 1 or more holes will not be eligible to win the competition and their scorecard used for handicap purposes only”

This I like. I understand what was posted earlier about it being a players decision to enter a comp based on the conditions laid down by the club, but something just doesn't sit right with not holing out in a medal event and being eligible to win. Fine for handicaps to enter a maximum score on one or more holes. No issue with that at all. I need to ask at my club what their stand is as I don't know

 

[Slab]

Maybe something along the lines of “competitors failing to hole out and entering a maximum score for 1 or more holes will not be eligible to win the competition and their scorecard used for handicap purposes only”

If you substitute entering a maximum score for 1 or more holes with entering an NR for 1 or more holes and isn't that just a regular medal comp?

Whats the difference

 

[HamiltonGuy]

B

What kind of Cat 1 player can't get to a 400 yard hole with a wedge in 8 shots?

I’m pretty sure with a putter I could reach the green in less than 8 strokes

 

[patricks148]

What kind of Cat 1 player can't get to a 400 yard hole with a wedge in 8 shots?

maybe he meant a Cat 1 something else... prisoner for instance

 

[jim8flog]

If you substitute entering a maximum score for 1 or more holes with entering an NR for 1 or more holes and isn't that just a regular medal comp?

Whats the difference

If you enter NR for a hole on a normal medal comp you are disqualified, that is the major difference.

Whilst we have got used to seeing NR on results sheets DQ is the correct result, NR is really only used for handicap purposes.

 

[Slab]

If you enter NR for a hole on a normal medal comp you are disqualified, that is the major difference.

Whilst we have got used to seeing NR on results sheets DQ is the correct result, NR is really only used for handicap purposes.

I understood that's what Paul intended it for (to exclude from comp)

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I understood that's what Paul intended it for (to exclude from comp)

I am answering the fears (see Lou’s example) of how a maximum score comp could be run without upsetting people who put actual scores on their card.
Currently if someone wants to keep going and put a 11 or 12 or more on the card, there is nothing to make them stop doing that, they see it as a challenge or their right to hole out, the maximum score comp dictates they will pick up when the maximum score for the hole is reached.

 

[3offTheTee]

B
I’m pretty sure with a putter I could reach the green in less than 8 strokes

Really!

The longest hole in the world is the 7th hole (par-7) of the Satsuki GC, Sano, Japan, which measures 881 m (964 yd).

 

[HankMarvin]

Really!

The longest hole in the world is the 7th hole (par-7) of the Satsuki GC, Sano, Japan, which measures 881 m (964 yd).

So the fact it was a 400 yard hole has nothing to do with it now when did a 964 par 7 hole get mentioned ?

Confused ?

 

[rulefan]

Nope that’s the Congu one - want the R&A to see if they say the same as the USGA - @rulefan mentioned the R&A so I’m guessing there is a link to what they recommend the Comps can be used for ( like the USGA have )!

I assume you saw
http://www.usga.org/content/dam/usg...nge in the New Rules of Golf for 2019 (1).pdf

That was published by both bodies but I haven't got the R&A link. I only kept one version.
But why would you think they would have different views?