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guest100718
Guest
and you have the same swing speed, smash factor, launch angle etc.....
fade over a draw
- Thread starter davemc1
- Start date
and you have the same swing speed, smash factor, launch angle etc.....
There has not been a golf course designed not to suit a straight shot. My normal shot is straight but I can hit a draw or fade if required and a draw will go further than a fade for sure.
Spear-Chucker
Tour Rookie
If anyone is in any way interested, here's something I go back to every now and again when working on how to fade the ball properly, usually due to my recurring bad habit of coming over the top (originally taken from Golf Digest). We all have a natural shape of course this is just one perspective:
JACK NICKLAUS: My basic shot through most of my career had a tendency to fade with power. And that is a great shot to have -- you can hit the ball long enough yet keep it in the fairway because it rolls less. But I don't think you should ever try to hit fades unless you can first draw the ball.
What I mean by that is, if you cannot hit your shots with a swing path that comes from inside the target line, and release the club so it turns over with the toe passing the heel through impact, you're never going to apply maximum power to the ball.
To play a draw, start the downswing from the ground up with the feet and legs leading. This sets up an inside swing path into the ball, the face closing through impact. Then all you do to play a fade is aim your body slightly left, open the clubface, and make the exact same swing.
Unfortunately, when average golfers try to play a power fade, they often come over the top (out to in), resulting in a weak pull-slice. Instead, you might think of the classic image of Ben Hogan setting himself up so he couldn't hook the ball (aligning left, weaker grip), and hitting it as hard as he could from the inside, trying to hook it by rotating the clubface almost back to square. That resulted in a powerfully hit ball that had a tendency to drop to the right.
JIM FLICK: The great teacher Harvey Penick would concur with Jack. Mr. Penick said first you need to draw the ball. That was one of his principles. He believed that to be a good player, you must learn to release the club with your right arm crossing over your left through impact.
Jack Grout taught Nicklaus the same thing. That's why he had a young Jack swing the club for the first year without letting his heels leave the ground. This gave Jack a strong support system with the feet and legs that matched how Grout wanted him to release the club -- the toe passing the heel through impact to draw his ball.
The most powerful fade is a push-fade because the club travels into the ball on a shallower, inside-out path, which research shows generates more clubhead speed. Players who cut across the ball with the club coming from out to in hit with a more glancing blow. The clubhead doesn't compress the ball as efficiently, and they lose distance. So if you want to hit a power fade, do yourself a favor and first learn to draw the ball.
JACK NICKLAUS: My basic shot through most of my career had a tendency to fade with power. And that is a great shot to have -- you can hit the ball long enough yet keep it in the fairway because it rolls less. But I don't think you should ever try to hit fades unless you can first draw the ball.
What I mean by that is, if you cannot hit your shots with a swing path that comes from inside the target line, and release the club so it turns over with the toe passing the heel through impact, you're never going to apply maximum power to the ball.
To play a draw, start the downswing from the ground up with the feet and legs leading. This sets up an inside swing path into the ball, the face closing through impact. Then all you do to play a fade is aim your body slightly left, open the clubface, and make the exact same swing.
Unfortunately, when average golfers try to play a power fade, they often come over the top (out to in), resulting in a weak pull-slice. Instead, you might think of the classic image of Ben Hogan setting himself up so he couldn't hook the ball (aligning left, weaker grip), and hitting it as hard as he could from the inside, trying to hook it by rotating the clubface almost back to square. That resulted in a powerfully hit ball that had a tendency to drop to the right.
JIM FLICK: The great teacher Harvey Penick would concur with Jack. Mr. Penick said first you need to draw the ball. That was one of his principles. He believed that to be a good player, you must learn to release the club with your right arm crossing over your left through impact.
Jack Grout taught Nicklaus the same thing. That's why he had a young Jack swing the club for the first year without letting his heels leave the ground. This gave Jack a strong support system with the feet and legs that matched how Grout wanted him to release the club -- the toe passing the heel through impact to draw his ball.
The most powerful fade is a push-fade because the club travels into the ball on a shallower, inside-out path, which research shows generates more clubhead speed. Players who cut across the ball with the club coming from out to in hit with a more glancing blow. The clubhead doesn't compress the ball as efficiently, and they lose distance. So if you want to hit a power fade, do yourself a favor and first learn to draw the ball.
mefromhere
Assistant Pro
For me you have to be able to hit both a fade and a draw. If you can only hit a fade and there's a massive lake on the right side of the fairway then it's a safe bet you're either going to end there or double cross yourself and end up way left. If you are able to control the shape then you can hit the right shot for any fairway on any course.
LanDog
Journeyman Pro
As has been said, Kaymer has reverted back to a fade as it was his natural shot, he believed that he took his old swing as far as it would go and that it would bring him limited success in the future. But he's now back to fading the ball, and he's averaging around 285 yards off the tee, which for a 6ft tall relatively well built fella on tour these days is not overly far, but then so far this week he is hitting nearly every fairway, and then basically every green.
It's a matter of that age old question of sacrificing power for control and accuracy, in someone like Kaymer's case where errand tee shots cost him a great deal in terms of scoring it's far better for him to lose yardage and be on the fairway
It's a matter of that age old question of sacrificing power for control and accuracy, in someone like Kaymer's case where errand tee shots cost him a great deal in terms of scoring it's far better for him to lose yardage and be on the fairway
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
you are entitled to your opinion - personally I agree with guest100718's here.
if you overlay shots hit on the same trajectory and path by Phil M and, for example, Dustin Johnson, they will act the same way on landing.
a fade and a draw can be considered mirror images...
however, if those shots are a low draw and a high fade then they will act very differently (and due to the process of achieving them they will probably have very different carry distances for the same club hit as well).
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Really??
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guest100718
Guest
really, why wouldnt they?
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Oh no great reason....just that it has been proved that a draw puts forward spin* on the ball and a fade puts backspin on it.
*apologies.....should be LESS backspin
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guest100718
Guest
lol. riiiiiight........
You really need to re visit that "proof"... lol
Start with looking at succh things as spin axis.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
No worries, it's up to you what you choose to believe :thup:
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Ok will a left hand drawer hit shorter than a right hand drawer? Given all launch angles etc the same?
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guest100718
Guest
Its what's true that matters.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
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guest100718
Guest
What about it? Its a link to someone perpetuating a myth.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
What has that got to do with it? A draw is a draw, a fade is a fade. Doesn't matter whether the player is left or right handed. It's to do with swing path and impact positions etc relative to ball and intended line of flight.
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guest100718
Guest
I think his point is why would a ball that spins on a left leaning axis go futher than ball with a right leaning axis? it has no reason to and doesnt. With everything else being equal they will go the same distance.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
I'm aware of that, a fade will fly as far as a draw the only difference is run out but for some reason people seem to think a left to right shot doesn't and can't go as far hence my question.
I didn't see any draws go further than Bubbas fade at Augusta on the 13th, moot point maybe but a point none the less, Bubba can draw and fade as far in equal measure.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Have you got a link to prove this please?
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guest100718
Guest
have a look for andrew rice the trackman guru.
