USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
I can't see the support of Trump helping the leave campaign much, so yes, i wish he had kept his mouth shut.
EU Referendum
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
I can't see the support of Trump helping the leave campaign much, so yes, i wish he had kept his mouth shut.
NWJocko
Tour Winner
The No vote did guarantee you stayed in the EU at that time though didn't it?
Did they "vow" there would never be a referendum on EU membership?
Old Skier
Tour Winner
The message that there would be a referendum on the EU was in the Tory manifesto prior to any vote on independence in Scotland.
No no mention on the Indy ballot sheet about the EU.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Give me a break. How do you think countries like Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada etc manage to do it with smaller populations than ours. Much of this talk smacks of desperation
Because they have been negotiating the trade deals they have in place today for decades might be one answer; and they haven't gone through the process of cancelling the vast majority of them at one fell swoop because they want to start again to see if they can perhaps get better deals than they have in place.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
That's not what they were saying...and on the other side of the coin BT said that there was no guarantee that an IndyScot would ever get membership of the EU - therefore the only way to guarantee Scotland in the EU was to stay IN the UK
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Must admit to being very confused by all this and other nationalist BS about supposed "broken promises". Always couched in extreme vagueness whenever discussed. What "lies", specifically, are you referring to? The Tory commitment to an in-out eu referendum was known and, regardless, at no time were we promised a no vote meant we'd be in the Eu forever.
The only lie I specifically remember was the "once in a generation" one.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Yes, it's not his business to tell us what to do, just like it's not Obamas business. I guess the difference with Trump is he's not threatening us with anything though.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
No more or less confusing than unionist claims that the 'once in a generation' exhortation made by Salmond in the heat of the battle to get folks out to vote - was some how a 'promise'.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
What about trade barriers; what about defence; pulling out of NATO; letting the rest of the world sort itself out without US support or intervention (which militarily might be a good thing but on humanitarian level less so) - after all is he not all about 'America First'.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
Lol! What a double standard that is. Stop bleating about abstract lies and come out with the specifics. Please.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Sorry - don't get...
I'm simply saying that the 'once in a generation' statement was an electoral exhortation that Unionist have turned into a 'promise'. But you are right - nowhere that I recall did I hear BT ever 'promise' that Scotland would forever stay part of the EU if it voted NO - but they certainly implied it. That coupled with statements about Scotland not getting back into the EU if it parted ways with rUK. Many Scots would have therefore concluded that the only way to ensure that Scotland stayed in the EU Was to vote NO. They may have been wrong in drawing that conclusion given an EU referendum was always on the cards - but I am sure many did.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Dont ignore the fact that the Conservatives had already said they would hold a referendum on EU Membership.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Wasn't part of the reason that Scotland were not guaranteed to be allowed to join the EU because Spain were threatening to veto it? They didn't want a precedent to be set in case Catalonia were successful in achieving independence and thought that if Scotland were allowed into the EU then it might increase the calls for independence in Catalonia if they thought they could join the EU straight away as well.
FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
So it's an electoral exhortation, not a lie. Ok got it.
NWJocko
Tour Winner
If there was a referendum already committed to why on earth would they guarantee "forever" membership of the EU unless they were planning on rigging the vote!?
So, was the statement (at the time of the Indy referendum) that the only way to guarantee Scotland remained in the EU was a No vote a statement of fact or "a pack of lies"?!?
NWJocko
Tour Winner
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Yes - they are quite different forms of statement.
Did Salmond actually qualify his 'once in a generation' remark with a statement to say that the SNP would not seek another referendum for a generation - that as far as the SNP were concerned this was the Scottish electorates one and only vote on Indy 'for a generation' (however long that might be). I don't think he did. It was an exortation to stir the electorate - get them thinking that it might just be a long while before Westminster grants Scotland another vote.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
If there was a referendum already committed to why on earth would they guarantee "forever" membership of the EU unless they were planning on rigging the vote!?
So, was the statement (at the time of the Indy referendum) that the only way to guarantee Scotland remained in the EU was a No vote a statement of fact or "a pack of lies"?!?
It was both. Former for the short term - latter for the long term.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
OK then, using your understanding of National Referendums, if the Vote next Month is to 'Stay' then we could have another one a year or so later?
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