EU Referendum

[Old Skier]

Actually Leave don't really have plans for anything

Its simple really. The plan that will be put into operation will be the same one as would have if Cameron hadn't won his useless concessions and the U.K. left.

Parliament was confident that they could have managed if we left 6 months ago, what has changed in the world in the last six months that will now make those plans inoperable.

We have no idea what the EU has in store for its members in the future and we have legislation in place that will enable us to have further votes on the issue in the future if major constitutional changes are made. Those that put the legislation in place must have the confidence that it's completely feasible for the UK to operate independently .

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Its simple really. The plan that will be put into operation will be the same one as would have if Cameron hadn't won his useless concessions and the U.K. left.

Parliament was confident that they could have managed if we left 6 months ago, what has changed in the world in the last six months that will now make those plans inoperable.

We have no idea what the EU has in store for its members in the future and we have legislation in place that will enable us to have further votes on the issue in the future if major constitutional changes are made. Those that put the legislation in place must have the confidence that it's completely feasible for the UK to operate independently .

OK - so if we accept that it is difficult to plan for life trying to integrate with an unknown future EU, where is the Exit Plan?

The plan that tells us simple things like: how and when and who will be untangling EU legislation from all existing UK legislation and re-writing it. And what about all the bills and laws in place that have EU principles and directives embedded - they are going to change - will the redrafted legislation needed bringing back to the HoC - it's going to be new legislation - it's going to have to be.

And the trade agreements - there is a very long list of key EU agreements that clearly we currently are part of (50 odd I think). Which ones are a Brexitted UK going to negotiate first? What is the impact of us not being in the ones being left for later? It is a complete nightmare - and I haven't seen anything from Leave that touches upon how all this sort of basic stuff is going to be dealt with.

Oh I know - it'll all get sorted - after all we used to run the Empire - this sort of stuff will be a piece of cake.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Sounds like if we Leave we will need an army of Civil Servants and the country will be tied up in red tape for decades.
[now where have I heard that sentiment before?]

 

[SocketRocket]

OK - so if we accept that it is difficult to plan for life trying to integrate with an unknown future EU, where is the Exit Plan?

The plan that tells us simple things like: how and when and who will be untangling EU legislation from all existing UK legislation and re-writing it. And what about all the bills and laws in place that have EU principles and directives embedded - they are going to change - will the redrafted legislation needed bringing back to the HoC - it's going to be new legislation - it's going to have to be.

And the trade agreements - there is a very long list of key EU agreements that clearly we currently are part of (50 odd I think). Which ones are a Brexitted UK going to negotiate first? What is the impact of us not being in the ones being left for later? It is a complete nightmare - and I haven't seen anything from Leave that touches upon how all this sort of basic stuff is going to be dealt with.

Oh I know - it'll all get sorted - after all we used to run the Empire - this sort of stuff will be a piece of cake.

These things will not have to be done overnight. There will be a period of negotiation over exit that will manage these details, they are not beyond the wit of a country like the UK.

 

[SocketRocket]

Sounds like if we Leave we will need an army of Civil Servants and the country will be tied up in red tape for decades.
[now where have I heard that sentiment before?]

We already have an army of civil Servants to deal with these matters. They also have to deal with the mass of detail currently from the EU. Whats the difference.

 

[Old Skier]

OK - so if we accept that it is difficult to plan for life trying to integrate with an unknown future EU, where is the Exit Plan.

Parliament had one six months ago - let's use that one.

 

[Old Skier]

Sounds like if we Leave we will need an army of Civil Servants and the country will be tied up in red tape for decades.
[now where have I heard that sentiment before?]

Still trying to work out whether your in or out as at one point you seemed to be all for an independent Scotland .

 

[Foxholer]

You dont seem to be reading my posts, or if you are you are not digesting the content but, rather applying your prejudice and then going off half cocked.

A quote that is entirely applicable to yourself!!

There is already a method of determining whether applicants will be acceptable, though being a citizen of an EU country over-rides any limitations. Withdrawal from the EU would not (imo, and everyone who has analysed/commented the documentation) change that over-riding ability for Freedom of Movement for EU citizens if UK joins the EFTA (as proposed by Gove), as it is a fundamental pillar of that Ageement - along with the 3 other 'Freedom of Movements...'!

In fact, withdrawal from the EU would cause considerable more of an issue, as UK would no longer be able to either veto or restrict new membership of the EU, but would have to allow citizens of those countries free access!

It's not EU immigrants that are the 'big' problem! It's the non-EU ones that are cause for real concern! The document you linked clearly demonstrates that!

Leaving the EU will not solve the immigration problem!

Your 'points system' is really only an alternative method of doing the job that is already being done - maybe better, maybe not - but would require a massive upheaval in CS processes and Regulation - and possibly even legislation - for, imo, little change in the number of approved immigration applications that could not be achieved by using/tweaking the existing regulations!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Still trying to work out whether your in or out as at one point you seemed to be all for an independent Scotland .

I want what the Tory, Labour and Lib Dem parties vowed to us in 2014.
Three forked tongues there as they said a No vote would guarantee Scotland staying in Europe.

 

[Old Skier]

I want what the Tory, Labour and Lib Dem parties vowed to us in 2014.
Three forked tongues there as they said a No vote would guarantee Scotland staying in Europe.

So your interest in an independent Scotland has evaporated

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I am just concerned about all of the people who voted to stay within the UK and the EU who were sold a pack of lies by what was then the three major Westminster parties.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

We already have an army of civil Servants to deal with these matters. They also have to deal with the mass of detail currently from the EU. Whats the difference.

You will need to multiply it by 50.
All those different trade agreements to instigate with at least 50 different countries.

 

[Old Skier]

I am just concerned about all of the people who voted to stay within the UK and the EU who were sold a pack of lies by what was then the three major Westminster parties.

I don't think you'll find the EU was mentioned on the ballot paper.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I don't think you'll find the EU was mentioned on the ballot paper.

You are wrong. It was part of the deal that folk signed up to.

 

[Old Skier]

You are wrong. It was part of the deal that folk signed up to.

So you are saying it was on the ballot paper then. I'm surprised, I thought it was a ballot based on an out - in on independence.

Strange that a Westminister government was only giving the right to vote on the EU to those living in Scotland.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So you are saying it was on the ballot paper then. I'm surprised, I thought it was a ballot based on an out - in on independence.

Strange that a Westminister government was only giving the right to vote on the EU to those living in Scotland.

I think you are getting confused now.

 

[SocketRocket]

You will need to multiply it by 50.
All those different trade agreements to instigate with at least 50 different countries.

Give me a break. How do you think countries like Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada etc manage to do it with smaller populations than ours. Much of this talk smacks of desperation

 

[SocketRocket]

A quote that is entirely applicable to yourself!!

There is already a method of determining whether applicants will be acceptable, though being a citizen of an EU country over-rides any limitations. Withdrawal from the EU would not (imo, and everyone who has analysed/commented the documentation) change that over-riding ability for Freedom of Movement for EU citizens if UK joins the EFTA (as proposed by Gove), as it is a fundamental pillar of that Ageement - along with the 3 other 'Freedom of Movements...'!

In fact, withdrawal from the EU would cause considerable more of an issue, as UK would no longer be able to either veto or restrict new membership of the EU, but would have to allow citizens of those countries free access!

It's not EU immigrants that are the 'big' problem! It's the non-EU ones that are cause for real concern! The document you linked clearly demonstrates that!

Leaving the EU will not solve the immigration problem!

Your 'points system' is really only an alternative method of doing the job that is already being done - maybe better, maybe not - but would require a massive upheaval in CS processes and Regulation - and possibly even legislation - for, imo, little change in the number of approved immigration applications that could not be achieved by using/tweaking the existing regulations!

You are suggesting it is a certainty that the UK would have to accept the EU free movement of labour after Brexit. There is nothing certain about it, I have said previously (but you seem to have ignored it in your selective manner) there are a whole raft of countries that have Free Trade Agreements with the EU but don't have FMOL agreements with the EU. This FMOL is something only used by the EU, it's a complete idiotic policy that is central to so much unrest and concern within the EU and will create massive problems in the future. I would suggest it will have to go before long.

Regarding a points based system, it's not a difficult policy to manage at all and effectively used now by much smaller countries. Of course it has the potential to improve the situation, at it's heart is the cap on numbers then you decide what skills you want and filter out those not needed. Simple.

 

[MegaSteve]

I am just concerned about all of the people who voted to stay within the UK and the EU who were sold a pack of lies by what was then the three major Westminster parties.

There is no way this government or any other one likely to be formed anytime in the near future is going to be taking the UK out of the EU irrespective of the outcome of any vote put to the great unwashed...

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Now Donald Trump has given his backing to "leave", I assume the same parties that castigated Obama will be criticising him for giving his opinion?