EU Referendum

[Hacker Khan]

Like an Egyptian fish, I'm in denial. And like a German vegetarian, I fear the wurst.

 

[SocketRocket]

Like an Egyptian fish, I'm in denial. And like a German vegetarian, I fear the wurst.

I tried a German sausage once. I have eaten Wurst!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A rhetorical question. Are the bankers who brought the world's economies to its knees to believed? Are we now holding their protestations as gospel, bearing in mind we berated them for the reckless mismanagement of banking?

They may well be right but I hold their opinion on a par with both the Remain and Leave politicians.

I have no idea if he is a banker - but he does try and put the Leave point of view as well as explain the impact Leaving could well have on the city and tries to explain why. If we can accept that income and tax from Financial services is very important to the UK economy, and a that banker sees leaving having an impact on his own self-interest - then his self interest is aligned with that of the UKs. If leaving was better for the banks and financial services and hence his own well-being - then why would he warn about the risks and impact of leaving - he'd be up for us leaving - why wouldn't he be?

And yet Leave just keep dismissing and ignoring this sort assessment with statements of just this sort 'well who trusts bankers'? What sort of counter argument is that. It isn't one of any sort whatsoever.

 

[Hobbit]

I have no idea if he is a banker - but he does try and put the Leave point of view as well as explain the impact Leaving could well have on the city and tries to explain why. If we can accept that income and tax from Financial services is very important to the UK economy, and a that banker sees leaving having an impact on his own self-interest - then his self interest is aligned with that of the UKs. If leaving was better for the banks and financial services and hence his own well-being - then why would he warn about the risks and impact of leaving - he'd be up for us leaving - why wouldn't he be?

And yet Leave just keep dismissing and ignoring this sort assessment with statements of just this sort 'well who trusts bankers'? What sort of counter argument is that. It isn't one of any sort whatsoever.

I guess we'll have to disagree. Recent history clearly suggests that blindly trusting a banker isn't always the safe thing to do. Let's be honest here, he's made an educated guess, just as they were doing in 2008 when the global economies went into meltdown.

Irrespective of whether you're a Remainers or a Leaver are you willing to take what he says as accurate?

But here's a thought or two. Turkey will be joining the EU soon. Their economy is on a par with Greece. Who will bail them out? Secondly, if the EU net contribution pot is £20, and an economy is being added that is a net taker from that pot either all the net takers will get less or the net contributors will pay more. Can Greece survive on less, bearing in mind they are already in dire straits?

The EU may well be exactly the same, post-referendum but will it be stable in two years time? There's plenty of evidence out there that clearly indicates that a single currency across diverse economic models is destined to fail. Great, every country reverts to their original base currency. The cost would be horrendous, especially for failing economies like Greece. Who funds that if the Greece's of the EU can't?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I think you can trust the present Bank of England chief.
He seems to be a cut above his predecessors.

 

[MegaSteve]

Seems to me many of the remainers so called 'experts' were amongst the tools that told us we simply had to join the euro or we'd collapse... They were TOTALLY wrong then... Why on earth should we believe what they have say this time round...


Still, no point in getting knickers in a twist... DaveCam is liar... According to the Scots... Why should I trust him to take us out of Europe in the event of a vote for Brexit...

 

[Old Skier]

Seems to me many of the remainers so called 'experts' were amongst the tools that told us we simply had to join the euro or we'd collapse... They were TOTALLY wrong then... Why on earth should we believe what they have say this time round...


Still, no point in getting knickers in a twist... DaveCam is liar... According to the Scots... Why should I trust him to take us out of Europe in the event of a vote for Brexit...

Many of the expert remainers were quite happy to leave before call me Dave got his non existent non ratified changes.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And today's scaremongers are the CEOs of AstraZenica, Pfizer, GlaksoSmithKlein plus many other senior executives fro the Life-Sciences industry in the UK (employs 220,000), explaining why being in the EU has made UK Life-Sciences World leading as well as very profitable and beneficial to the UK, and the CEOs of all divisions of Hitachi UK explaining the importance of free access to the EU single market and why they are in the UK. Except they have all been explaining the benefits that they and the UK get from the UK being in the EU. Yes - being in the EU is good for their businesses, but what is good for their business is good for the UK.

Hunting around a bit for any equivalent execs coming out for Brexit today - and not as yet found any.

 

[Hobbit]

You missed the scaremongers from MI6 and MI5, both of which said we'd be less secure outside of the EU.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You missed the scaremongers from MI6 and MI5, both of which said we'd be less secure outside of the EU.

Except my point is that the CEOs were making the positive point and not scaremongering. Security matters is all about minimising risk and MI5 and MI6 will pick up on anything that they think increases risk. If leaving the EU reduced risk them they'd let us know - as improved and maintaining the security of the UK and our interests overseas is their raison d'etre.

 

[Old Skier]

You missed the scaremongers from MI6 and MI5, both of which said we'd be less secure outside of the EU.

That's it then we're doomed .

GCHQ closing down, laying off hundreds of spy's, nobody will want our info.

Looks like the Barley Mow is going to lose out on its regular drinkers.

Life will never be the same, at least the bar won't be so crowded now.

 

[SocketRocket]

You missed the scaremongers from MI6 and MI5, both of which said we'd be less secure outside of the EU.

They were EX Chiefs although I guess thats not important.

I listened to their case this morning and it was not very convincing to me. They seemed to be saying our security was far superior to the rest of Europe and it would be them missing out but I cant understand how we would not still share intelligence as it would be in our and their best interests. We are probably as close or even closer to the USA when it comes to security collaboration. They're not in the EU are they?

One of them made a big deal about the EU arrest warrant and how important it was but again I cant see how a similar arrangement couldn't be continued. It seems more of a security issue to let an unknown number of ISIS terrorists through the Shengin Area due to the EU being totally incapable of managing the situation.

 

[SocketRocket]

I think you can trust the present Bank of England chief.
He seems to be a cut above his predecessors.

And in your opinion he is a cut above the others because?

 

[FairwayDodger]

Seems to be an assumption from the brexiters that they can keep everything they like about the EU while dumping the parts they don't like. Sort of all the benefits with none of the responsibilities. I'm not buying that, I'm afraid.

 

[Hobbit]

Except my point is that the CEOs were making the positive point and not scaremongering. Security matters is all about minimising risk and MI5 and MI6 will pick up on anything that they think increases risk. If leaving the EU reduced risk them they'd let us know - as improved and maintaining the security of the UK and our interests overseas is their raison d'etre.

Semantics, and you know it. One person's scaremongering is another's lie. Call it positive if you want but its still guess work. Its this exact thing that really pee's me off from both sides. You genuinely believe what one sides says whilst totally dismissing the other side. There's been so many intelligent people say nobody knows exactly what it will be like post referendum.

First of all, David Cameron went and renegotiated what? He's got nothing yet. He has a list of changes to our T&C's that still have to be ratified by the other member nations. That in itself means we don't know what the EU will be like for the UK post Remain. Secondly, no one knows what will be negotiated post exit, via Article 50, until those negotiations take place.

Both sides are guilty of scaremongering, and each side says they aren't they are telling the truth.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

And in your opinion he is a cut above the others because?

He appears unshackled and honest, and as a Canadian he is not part of the 'establishment' of City based ex public schoolboy Tory types.

 

[ColchesterFC]

And today's scaremongers are the CEOs of AstraZenica, Pfizer, GlaksoSmithKlein plus many other senior executives fro the Life-Sciences industry in the UK (employs 220,000), explaining why being in the EU has made UK Life-Sciences World leading as well as very profitable and beneficial to the UK, and the CEOs of all divisions of Hitachi UK explaining the importance of free access to the EU single market and why they are in the UK. Except they have all been explaining the benefits that they and the UK get from the UK being in the EU. Yes - being in the EU is good for their businesses, but what is good for their business is good for the UK.

Hunting around a bit for any equivalent execs coming out for Brexit today - and not as yet found any.

The problem with the letters to the press and these companies coming out in support of remaining is shown up when you delve into some of the figures.

The original letter was signed by 198 Business Leaders and was trumpeted as having 36 of the FTSE 100 companies as signatories. This means that almost 2/3 of the FTSE 100 companies declined to sign the letter. Between 2007 and 2014 those 36 companies spent a little over 23 million Euros lobbying the EU and in return received just under 121 millions Euros in grants. Small wonder they want to remain if they are getting a 6 fold return on their lobbying investment.

The situation is similar for those in science and research in that they are getting much of their funding from the EU so of course will want to remain.

And if you're wanting business leaders that support a Leave vote then there are always JCB, Tate and Lyle, JD Weatherspoon, Dyson and Lloyds Banking Group.

 

[Old Skier]

He appears unshackled and honest, and as a Canadian he is not part of the 'establishment' of City based ex public schoolboy Tory types.

So only the Tory boys go to public school then.

 

[Old Skier]

Except my point is that the CEOs were making the positive point and not scaremongering. Security matters is all about minimising risk and MI5 and MI6 will pick up on anything that they think increases risk. If leaving the EU reduced risk them they'd let us know - as improved and maintaining the security of the UK and our interests overseas is their raison d'etre.

They said could not would and admitted that the security framework was set up by the British so why would it change.

I presume those who feel that information is at risk think that if we had details of an attack on Paris we would keep it to ourselves as we would no longer be in the EU.

 

[SocketRocket]

He appears unshackled and honest, and as a Canadian he is not part of the 'establishment' of City based ex public schoolboy Tory types.

So if someone was the Son of a Railway Porter, went to a Black Country state junior School and a local Grammar School then what kind of Governor of the Bank of England would he make?