EU Referendum

[bluewolf]

Opening the floodgates to unchecked immigration (which seems quite appealing to a number of posters here) would bring that 'critical mass' about sooner rather than later. I am not convinced we have unbridled Capitalism here, seems far from it when you consider our generous welfare system.

The 'correction' you speak of will come about but not from a political system but from Natural and Human Nature. Competition for scarce resources will probably be the deciding factor on when and how that 'correction' takes place.

In all honesty, there is no real solution.. Only short term solutions that maintain the status quo whilst merely pushing the issue slightly further into the near future..
Also, when I refer to a "population critical mass", it is mostly referring to a global issue, not a local one.. When there is nowhere to grow food, then the population will collapse..
Also, we do have unbridled Capitalism, as evidenced by the fact that we are wholly subservient to Banks/Big business (as evidenced by the banking bale out). We just haven't yet had the "stones" to introduce a Friedman style economy as the population wouldn't yet support it. We would rather run at a huge deficit and push the issue further down the road..

 

[bluewolf]

Will it be culling the elderly?? If so then I think there could be other wins as well. The roads would not be so crowded as they would not be full of old people waiting for someone else to move at mini roundabouts for 10 minutes or slowing down to 10 mph to get round a barely detectable bend in the road. Plus a lot of golf clubs would no longer have the silly dress codes favoured by the elderly generation meaning the game would open itself up to a new generation. It's win win I think.

Imagine what a Spanish Flu style epidemic would do to Golf Clubs worldwide!!! Ping would go bankrupt in a week.. Snooker tables would lie idle.. Halfway huts would no longer stock pasties!! Chaos..

 

[delc]

Will it be culling the elderly?? If so then I think there could be other wins as well. The roads would not be so crowded as they would not be full of old people waiting for someone else to move at mini roundabouts for 10 minutes or slowing down to 10 mph to get round a barely detectable bend in the road. Plus a lot of golf clubs would no longer have the silly dress codes favoured by the elderly generation meaning the game would open itself up to a new generation. It's win win I think.

If you are lucky, you will get old some day, and may not then think that this is such a good idea!

 

[bluewolf]

If you are lucky, you will get old some day, and may not then think that this is such a good idea!

Do you think he'll keep his sense of humour? Or will it be taken away in a Logan's Run style experiment?

 

[SocketRocket]

Will it be culling the elderly?? If so then I think there could be other wins as well. The roads would not be so crowded as they would not be full of old people waiting for someone else to move at mini roundabouts for 10 minutes or slowing down to 10 mph to get round a barely detectable bend in the road. Plus a lot of golf clubs would no longer have the silly dress codes favoured by the elderly generation meaning the game would open itself up to a new generation. It's win win I think.

Lets start with your loved ones!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I just read that article and it's not suggesting that only England needs speaking up for. It is referring to an incident 76 years ago where the Tory anti-appeaser Leo Amery issued his famous wartime invitation across the floor of the House of Commons over the shoulder of a hapless Neville Chamberlain. It actually asks who will speak for the UK if you read it.

What's the headline about then?

 

[SocketRocket]

What's the headline about then?

I explained it's referring to an incident 76 years ago where the Tory anti-appeaser Leo Amery issued his famous wartime invitation across the floor of the House of Commons over the shoulder of a hapless Neville Chamberlain. The reason they used it was to make the point that the Euro Sceptics in the Cabinet are being gaged while the others are free to give their pro EU views. It's not a direct suggestion that England needs a voice rather than the whole of the UK.

 

[delc]

Imagine what a Spanish Flu style epidemic would do to Golf Clubs worldwide!!! Ping would go bankrupt in a week.. Snooker tables would lie idle.. Halfway huts would no longer stock pasties!! Chaos..

Spanish Flu actually disproportionately killed fit healthy young adults, rather than the young and the elderly. So not a threat to Ping, snooker tables, or halfway huts! :mmm:

 

[Hacker Khan]

Do you think he'll keep his sense of humour? Or will it be taken away in a Logan's Run style experiment?

The rush to be professionally offended means there's no place for humour on the modem Internet forum young man....

 

[SocketRocket]

The rush to be professionally offended means there's no place for humour on the modem Internet forum young man....

Seems to have offended you

 

[Ethan]

Population is a big issue, mainly caused by pensioners living to be one hundred and twelvety three these days. Our aging population means the state is paying huge amounts in pensions and taking less and less money in income tax.

For the country's economy to grow, we need a young, fit and able work force. Amazingly, even the people on Jeremy Kyle don't excrete enough loin fruit to staff our nation. There's a good reason unemployment is so low, and it's the same reason we need migrants: The relentless pursuit of "growth".

I agree that we are over populated. But what can we do? Become communists? Have a cull of old folk? Breed more? None of these seem good ideas really.

I am, at heart a capitalist, but as population reaches critical mass, we are feeling some of the shortcomings of capitalism very keenly indeed. The roads are all but impassable. Schools are full. Care homes are chock full of urine-soaked old tossers ( a fate that is just round the corner for most of us, I'd bet).

For my part, I drink too much and eat fatty foods. I'll not be taking up too much room past my sell-by. It is our duty to die, so live life to the full and don't sit around repeating yourself in a pool of your own excreta and TCP for too long. That's not living. The world is full, if you're not living on the edge you are taking up too much space.

And this demographic imbalance is precisely the reason Germany wanted to take so many migrants, mostly young. The German fertility rate is very low and the population needs to rebalance soon or the economy will become unsustainable. The only options are more children, fewer old people or a retirement age over 70. Or possibly all of those. There has not been a correction in the inexorable rise in life expectancy since Spanish flu, and there is little sign of any happening soon. Rising rates of diabetes and dementia are only adding to morbidity and health care costs, not taking people off at the top end.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

On the other hand obesity will level out the elderly problem.
As I walk down any high street I see many folk who will not live into their 60's
Seems to be a worldwide solution now.

 

[delc]

And this demographic imbalance is precisely the reason Germany wanted to take so many migrants, mostly young. The German fertility rate is very low and the population needs to rebalance soon or the economy will become unsustainable. The only options are more children, fewer old people or a retirement age over 70. Or possibly all of those. There has not been a correction in the inexorable rise in life expectancy since Spanish flu, and there is little sign of any happening soon. Rising rates of diabetes and dementia are only adding to morbidity and health care costs, not taking people off at the top end.

Young, intelligent, well educated, and aspirational people can no longer afford to have children, because they are having to pay off student debts and huge mortgages. Yet under Gordon Brown, the benefit claiming, Labour voting, underclass were positively encouraged to have children to get even more benefits (e.g. Mick Philpott of Jeremy Kyle fame). Survival of the thickest?!!! :mmm:

 

[SocketRocket]

And this demographic imbalance is precisely the reason Germany wanted to take so many migrants, mostly young. The German fertility rate is very low and the population needs to rebalance soon or the economy will become unsustainable. The only options are more children, fewer old people or a retirement age over 70. Or possibly all of those. There has not been a correction in the inexorable rise in life expectancy since Spanish flu, and there is little sign of any happening soon. Rising rates of diabetes and dementia are only adding to morbidity and health care costs, not taking people off at the top end.

And when they grow old what will be the answer? More Migrants , then more and more to pay for them! Seems a pretty poor solution to me.

A better way would be a longer working life and later pensionable age as life expectancy increases; coupled with people paying more towards retirement. Maybe we should also spent less on working/child benefits and more on retirement.

 

[Ethan]

And when they grow old what will be the answer? More Migrants , then more and more to pay for them! Seems a pretty poor solution to me.

A better way would be a longer working life and later pensionable age as life expectancy increases; coupled with people paying more towards retirement. Maybe we should also spent less on working/child benefits and more on retirement.

It isn't an either or. The idea of letting the population age and just push up retirement age is at best a short term solution and will soon fail. Elderly people will become unable to work effectively even if willing. The population needs young people in at the bottom end to balance the old people at the top end. There is no alternative apart from forced euthanasia or a pandemic selectively affecting older people.

 

[Hacker Khan]

It isn't an either or. The idea of letting the population age and just push up retirement age is at best a short term solution and will soon fail. Elderly people will become unable to work effectively even if willing. The population needs young people in at the bottom end to balance the old people at the top end. There is no alternative apart from forced euthanasia or a pandemic selectively affecting older people.

Blimey, how ironic that the problem wasn't the immigrants after all but it turned out to be the elderly!

It must be tough for the elderly though with papers like The Daily Mail and Express printing endless headlines blaming the elderly for all the ills of society, in a desperate attempt to appeal to the young voters who yearn after a mythical age when the UK was full of young vibrant people. And even worse is the fact that some of the more gullible young Daily Mail readers just lap it up and take any old crap that The Daily Mail and Express prints as gospel.

You have to feel for the elderly really, getting picked on by the press as they are such an easy target as the young need someone to blame for the fact the world has changed and they just have not kept up. Hey youngsters, we now live in a wrinkly world, the past was yours but the future's grey, just accept it and move on will you!!

 

[delc]

It isn't an either or. The idea of letting the population age and just push up retirement age is at best a short term solution and will soon fail. Elderly people will become unable to work effectively even if willing. The population needs young people in at the bottom end to balance the old people at the top end. There is no alternative apart from forced euthanasia or a pandemic selectively affecting older people.

Are sure that this is an issue? We seem to have had a bit of a baby boom over the last 15 years or so. And judging by the number of pop stars and other celebs that are dying in their 60's and early 70's, are people really living longer? My wife died at the age of 59 and one of my best golfing mates at the age of 60 (both from cancer, which seems to be on the increase), so not everybody lives for ever!

 

[JamPal]

Are sure that this is an issue? We seem to have had a bit of a baby boom over the last 15 years or so. And judging by the number of pop stars and other celebs that are dying in their 60's and early 70's are people really living longer? My wife died at the age of 59 and one of my best golfing mates at the age of 60 (both from cancer, which seems to be on the increase), so not everybody lives for ever!

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear of your losses. Cancer is merciless and cruel.

However I've not seen any evidence that cancer is not on the increase. The population is. Therefore instances are up, but I don't believe that equates to an increase in frequency. It's still at about 1 in 3.

There has been a small recent baby boom, you are right. This gives the full picture:

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pop-e...hern-ireland/2013/sty-population-changes.html

 

[Ethan]

Are sure that this is an issue? We seem to have had a bit of a baby boom over the last 15 years or so. And judging by the number of pop stars and other celebs that are dying in their 60's and early 70's, are people really living longer? My wife died at the age of 59 and one of my best golfing mates at the age of 60 (both from cancer, which seems to be on the increase), so not everybody lives for ever!

We have had a small reversal of the demographic imbalance in recent years, ironically driven by immigrants.

As to the epidemiology of cancer, you need to be careful what you read. There are two different measures of incidence. One is absolute numbers of cases. This is rising for cancer, because everyone dies of something, and heart disease and stroke rates are falling, so people will inevitably die from what is left, cancer and dementia.

Doctors looks at cancer rates in a different way, using age specific incidence rates. Cancer is known to be (generally) correlated with age. It is basically the breakdown of your body's cellular regeneration and repair mechanisms and that will happen to us all sooner or later, if something else doesn't get us first. So, if you look at the numbers of cases in people in a 5 or 10 year age range, these rates are falling. This is because more people are getting cancer, but they are getting it later in life. The fall is probably due to a number of factors. Falling smoking rates is a big one, better diet, more exercise and less sun exposure also contribute. Cancer screening and treatment is probably only a small effect.

 

[SocketRocket]

Blimey, how ironic that the problem wasn't the immigrants after all but it turned out to be the elderly!

It must be tough for the elderly though with papers like The Daily Mail and Express printing endless headlines blaming the elderly for all the ills of society, in a desperate attempt to appeal to the young voters who yearn after a mythical age when the UK was full of young vibrant people. And even worse is the fact that some of the more gullible young Daily Mail readers just lap it up and take any old crap that The Daily Mail and Express prints as gospel.


You have to feel for the elderly really, getting picked on by the press as they are such an easy target as the young need someone to blame for the fact the world has changed and they just have not kept up. Hey youngsters, we now live in a wrinkly world, the past was yours but the future's grey, just accept it and move on will you!!

That's quite a clever post. The way you mask your prejudices with satire leaves anyone disagreeing open to an accusation of having a sense of humour short circuit.

It would be interesting to read your view in a less pythoness manner.