EU Referendum

SocketRocket said:
Come on now, that the same type of argument that can used to suit any side. Here's another: If all these immigrants pay lots of tax and Ni into the system, don't claim benefits and are big net contributors then why aren't we rolling in dosh. We should have lots more money to fund the NHS, build houses, more schools, cut taxes and retire earlier. Bring them on!
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According to this, that would seem to be exactly what has happened!

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6399/economics/impact-of-immigration-on-uk-economy/

Can't comment on the veracity of the article, but it uses ONS data and appears sound at first glance! An interesting thing to note is the percentage of immigrants who are come here for formal study - over half in fact and nearly 3 times as many who arrive either for a formal job or are looking for work!
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/12759/labour-markets/reasons-net-migration-uk/
No idea why an equivalent number isn't included in the outward migration!
 
Foxholer said:
According to this, that would seem to be exactly what has happened!

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6399/economics/impact-of-immigration-on-uk-economy/

Can't comment on the veracity of the article, but it uses ONS data and appears sound at first glance! An interesting thing to note is the percentage of immigrants who are come here for formal study - over half in fact and nearly 3 times as many who arrive either for a formal job or are looking for work!
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/12759/labour-markets/reasons-net-migration-uk/
No idea why an equivalent number isn't included in the outward migration!
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My point was about digging out data that suits your argument can be made for almost anything. It was not to open a debate on immigration specifically. As a matter of interest take a look at the costs of longer term immigration from non EU migrants, the fact that they are not mainly young single people makes a huge different to their costs.
 
SocketRocket said:
My point was about digging out data that suits your argument can be made for almost anything. It was not to open a debate on immigration specifically. As a matter of interest take a look at the costs of longer term immigration from non EU migrants, the fact that they are not mainly young single people makes a huge different to their costs.
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'Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics' has always been a 'watch-phrase' - even/especially when I worked for the Dept of Statistics!!

Immigraton - and control of UK borders - is a fundamental focus for the Brexit campaign! But the Brexitters have yet to come up with a resolution that will actually work - as joining EFTA will not restrict EU migrants!

And it appears you are indicating that non-EU migrants that are a larger burden, whereas the study indicates that EU migrants are significant contributors! But. again, note my first sentence!!
 
Foxholer said:
'Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics' has always been a 'watch-phrase' - even/especially when I worked for the Dept of Statistics!!

Immigraton - and control of UK borders - is a fundamental focus for the Brexit campaign! But the Brexitters have yet to come up with a resolution that will actually work - as joining EFTA will not restrict EU migrants!

And it appears you are indicating that non-EU migrants that are a larger burden, whereas the study indicates that EU migrants are significant contributors! But. again, note my first sentence!!
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Only because most have been here a shorter time. They will not make a positive contribution in the long term unless they leave before raising families or getting old.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Ah... but Wings is the second most popular politics/news forum in the UK.
I don't think tooooo many on here follow The Daily Caller. {smaksofdesperation.com]
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I consider myself well read, yet I'd never heard of Wings before you posted up links. And no, I hadn't heard of the Caller either. I place equal value on both, i. e. Both good for lining the bin. Now if you posted up links to a main stream newspaper I'd take you more seriously. Yes I know the main streams are biased but at least I know their bias and can take it into account.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
The Daily Caller :confused: and it's a year old.
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As were your stats, although things have changed over the last 5 years. It was a fact that people with what were considered life threatening jobs (fire service, police and regular forces personnel (the list even included hairdressers) were retiring at 50 with others in the public sector going at 55. There has been a change but more to do with reducing the public sector pensions rather than changing retirement ages.

In Greece it has always been about public sector costs than OAP.
 
Hobbit said:
I consider myself well read, yet I'd never heard of Wings before you posted up links. And no, I hadn't heard of the Caller either. I place equal value on both, i. e. Both good for lining the bin. Now if you posted up links to a main stream newspaper I'd take you more seriously. Yes I know the main streams are biased but at least I know their bias and can take it into account.
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I always though Wings was his own little blog.
 
SocketRocket said:
Only because most have been here a shorter time. They will not make a positive contribution in the long term unless they leave before raising families or getting old.
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While I can see your point, I don't believe it's valid!

They are no different from equivalent UK folk with regard to making a positive contribution - except that the initial 'cost' of raising and educating them is saved (at least for those with/looking for a job) because that that cost has been borne by their home countries!

And that argument is certainly not what is being debated by the Brexiters an Bremainers!
 
Foxholer said:
While I can see your point, I don't believe it's valid!

They are no different from equivalent UK folk with regard to making a positive contribution - except that the initial 'cost' of raising and educating them is saved (at least for those with/looking for a job) because that that cost has been borne by their home countries!

And that argument is certainly not what is being debated by the Brexiters an Bremainers!
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They are no different from UK folk, that's correct as UK Folk on average cost more than they put in, thats why we have a National Debt. The point isn't that, it's that the suggestion that immigrants are net contributors to the exchequer is not true in the longer term.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
The Daily Caller :confused: and it's a year old.
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My point really was just to highlight that you can find or invent pretty much anything with a quick google search.

However, it was well publicised in news reports at the time of the Greek bailout that they want to retire early but don't have the money to finance it. But it's OK, we can pay millions a week to help them out :thup:

Can't wait till Turkey join as well..........
 
drive4show said:
My point really was just to highlight that you can find or invent pretty much anything with a quick google search.

However, it was well publicised in news reports at the time of the Greek bailout that they want to retire early but don't have the money to finance it. But it's OK, we can pay millions a week to help them out :thup:

Can't wait till Turkey join as well..........
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All countries on the 'To Join' list are all basket case economies and their main reason to join will be for someone else to pay to improve their lifestyles. Wouldn't mind someone else paying to improve mine.
 
SocketRocket said:
They are no different from UK folk, that's correct as UK Folk on average cost more than they put in, thats why we have a National Debt. The point isn't that, it's that the suggestion that immigrants are net contributors to the exchequer is not true in the longer term.
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That's a ridiculous statement!

We have a National Debt because GOVERNMENTS have chosen to spend more than they received, not because individuals contribute more or less than they take out! The aging population - and costs vs contribution issues - are, indeed, areas that should concern government planners (and that's why pension ages are being raised), but that's a totally different issue from the EU/Immigration one!

Btw. In searching for evidence/stts, I came across this interesting, if old, article that appears to highlight how little the EU costs taxpayers! There seems to be plenty of scope for savings in areas other than the EU! Can't say how accurate (or not) the figures actually are though!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ed-how-much-you-pay-towards-benefit-bill.html
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Ah... but Wings is the second most popular politics/news forum in the UK.
I don't think tooooo many on here follow The Daily Caller. {smaksofdesperation.com]
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But popular does not equal correct, factual or accurate. The Sun is the most popular tabloid newspaper in the UK and The Daily Mail Website is the most popular online newspaper website. Are you suggesting that we should just accept everything they print because they're popular?
 
Foxholer said:
That's a ridiculous statement!

We have a National Debt because GOVERNMENTS have chosen to spend more than they received, not because individuals contribute more or less than they take out! The aging population - and costs vs contribution issues - are, indeed, areas that should concern government planners (and that's why pension ages are being raised), but that's a totally different issue from the EU/Immigration one!

Btw. In searching for evidence/stts, I came across this interesting, if old, article that appears to highlight how little the EU costs taxpayers! There seems to be plenty of scope for savings in areas other than the EU! Can't say how accurate (or not) the figures actually are though!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ed-how-much-you-pay-towards-benefit-bill.html
Click to expand...

There is nothing ridiculous about my statement. Government only spends money the tax payers put in, money they spend out is used for the overall benefit of the population. So as I said the money paid in by the native population is less than the Government pay out on their behalf.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...687/Immigration-the-real-cost-to-Britain.html
 
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