EU Referendum

[ColchesterFC]

Well said sir.
The Eastern European immigrants that I have met in Scotland are virtually all, skilled, hard working, polite and most importantly... tax payers.
The hospitality/tourism areas have really benefited from their inclusion.

Genuine question for you DfT as I don't know the answer but would they be nett contributors via tax. You said skilled and hard working and then mentioned tourism and hospitality which are generally lower skilled and lower paid jobs. I would assume that in many cases tax credits would be topping up their incomes and therefore their contribution as tax payers would be minimal or even slightly negative..

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'll give you one fact. We won't have to pay £350 MILLION pounds A WEEK to the EU. What more to you need to know?

Well here are the actual facts...(link to source at bottom)

Well, no. The UK does not send £350m a week to Brussels - the rebate is deducted before the money is sent, which takes the contribution down to £276m a week.

The actual sum sent to the EU, once the money that returns to the UK is deducted, is £161m a week.

And before deciding to divert that £161m a week to the NHS, we would have to see what trade deal the UK ended up doing with the European Union.

Countries outside the EU, which want access to the single market, such as Norway and Switzerland, still make contributions to the EU Budget.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/eqbxj5/live/c8j38g

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Genuine question for you DfT as I don't know the answer but would they be nett contributors via tax. You said skilled and hard working and then mentioned tourism and hospitality which are generally lower skilled and lower paid jobs. I would assume that in many cases tax credits would be topping up their incomes and therefore their contribution as tax payers would be minimal or even slightly negative..

This is from April 2015 - but I'd have thought would still hold as a general conclusion - unless someone can find a source that tells us things have changed

EU immigrants contribute £463 per second to the UK economy

http://www.cityam.com/213058/eu-immigrants-contribute-463-second-uk-economy

 

[ColchesterFC]

Cheers for the response SiLH. Seems that not all of the EU immigrants are taking low paid jobs and claiming our benefits then.

I would slightly argue with your other point about our contribution to the EU. According to the link at the bottom our actual contribution after the rebate is taken into account is around 250 million per week. I'm not sure that you can include the money we get back for farming or science grants can be taken out of that figure as we don't have control over where it is spent. As the article says "The money we get back will be spent on things the government may or may not choose to fund if we left the EU. It’s not enough to look at the net contribution in isolation because what we get back isn’t fully under our control." Although I do agree with you that the figure isn't 55 million per day for our contribution.

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Cheers for the response SiLH. Seems that not all of the EU immigrants are taking low paid jobs and claiming our benefits then.

I would slightly argue with your other point about our contribution to the EU. According to the link at the bottom our actual contribution after the rebate is taken into account is around 250 million per week. I'm not sure that you can include the money we get back for farming or science grants can be taken out of that figure as we don't have control over where it is spent. As the article says "The money we get back will be spent on things the government may or may not choose to fund if we left the EU. It’s not enough to look at the net contribution in isolation because what we get back isn’t fully under our control." Although I do agree with you that the figure isn't 55 million per day for our contribution.

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

I think that where I disagree or am not sure about something I've decided to try and find facts and not put my opinion in. Except that on farming and science - well we'd have to fund that somehow - and Leave say UK would fund these areas at least to the current levels

And so CrazyFace said quite clearly and confidently that we pay £350million A WEEK into the EU. I've heard this figure used by Brexiteers before and talked of as solving all of our problems - including being able to come out of austerity measures, fix the NHS etc etc - so I had a very quick look into it. And the £350million figure turns out quite simply to not be true

 

[SocketRocket]

This is from April 2015 - but I'd have thought would still hold as a general conclusion - unless someone can find a source that tells us things have changed

EU immigrants contribute £463 per second to the UK economy

http://www.cityam.com/213058/eu-immigrants-contribute-463-second-uk-economy

Immigrants making a net contribution only holds true when looking short term. New immigrants tend to be younger single people who make a net contribution. If you look longer term then it's not the same, as they age they will start to cost the state more and over their lives will cost more than they contribute. If you look at the cost of immigrants over a longer term you will get a much different picture.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...687/Immigration-the-real-cost-to-Britain.html

 

[ColchesterFC]

And so CrazyFace said quite clearly and confidently that we pay £350million A WEEK into the EU. I've heard this figure used by Brexiteers before and talked of as solving all of our problems - including being able to come out of austerity measures, fix the NHS etc etc - so I had a very quick look into it. And the £350million figure turns out quite simply to not be true

I'm currently looking out of the window for any signs of the four horseman of the Apocolypse as it appears that I agree with you on something. That has to be a harbinger of doom.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Genuine question for you DfT as I don't know the answer but would they be nett contributors via tax. You said skilled and hard working and then mentioned tourism and hospitality which are generally lower skilled and lower paid jobs. I would assume that in many cases tax credits would be topping up their incomes and therefore their contribution as tax payers would be minimal or even slightly negative..

I assume you mean cleaners and waiters/bar staff etc which is the easy generalisation.
Like many I have a non Scottish doctor.
In our practice one is from Austria one Australia and one from Pakistan. They are all great doctors
It is also good to see the second generation immigrants enjoying a Scottish education. In a few years time I am sure we shall see them representing Scotland at all sorts of levels. We might even grow a decent fitba team.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

UKIP HQ [somewhere in deep Essex I assume] are trying to get rid of their Scottish leader in the middle of a Scottish election.
The reason, he is not performing well in the Euro referendum.

I hope he stays as the comedy value he brings rivals Ricky Gervais

 

[ColchesterFC]

I assume you mean cleaners and waiters/bar staff etc which is the easy generalisation.
Like many I have a non Scottish doctor.
In our practice one is from Austria one Australia and one from Pakistan. They are all great doctors
It is also good to see the second generation immigrants enjoying a Scottish education. In a few years time I am sure we shall see them representing Scotland at all sorts of levels. We might even grow a decent fitba team.

I wasn't generalising. My question was based entirely on your post about hospitality and tourism workers and whether they would be considered nett contributors. I made no mention of highly skilled immigrants as they are obviously both needed by the country and nett contributors as well.

You do manage to post some absolute drivel on a lot of subjects (IMO) but I think that you have managed to top the lot with this post. Suggesting that Scotland might have a decent football team. You have plumbed new depths with that one.

 

[Foxholer]

You do manage to post some absolute drivel on a lot of subjects (IMO) but I think that you have managed to top the lot with this post. Suggesting that Scotland might have a decent football team. You have plumbed new depths with that one.

Whoosh! :rofl:

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I asked this question a while back on here and nobody answered it but to all the pro EU people........

We BUY more from the EU than we SELL to them so do you really think they are going to make it difficult for us to trade with them? If they do, it is the EU countries that will be worse off.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I wasn't generalising. My question was based entirely on your post about hospitality and tourism workers and whether they would be considered nett contributors. I made no mention of highly skilled immigrants as they are obviously both needed by the country and nett contributors as well.

You do manage to post some absolute drivel on a lot of subjects (IMO) but I think that you have managed to top the lot with this post. Suggesting that Scotland might have a decent football team. You have plumbed new depths with that one.

I do hope you realise that there is a bit more to the hospitality industry than low paid jobs.
In The North of Scotland there is not the depth of population to cover all the jobs. Those businesses would fail without those workers. Turnberry for an example has very few local staff as the level of expertise they demand is not met by the local job market.

Re sports teams.......How many English born or second generation players fill the national rugby/cricket/hockey teams these days. AS for the EPL it is sometimes hard to spot an English player.

 

[FairwayDodger]

I asked this question a while back on here and nobody answered it but to all the pro EU people........

We BUY more from the EU than we SELL to them so do you really think they are going to make it difficult for us to trade with them? If they do, it is the EU countries that will be worse off.

Yes

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I asked this question a while back on here and nobody answered it but to all the pro EU people........

We BUY more from the EU than we SELL to them so do you really think they are going to make it difficult for us to trade with them? If they do, it is the EU countries that will be worse off.

Yes.......... a case of Stuff You red wine please.

 

[Hobbit]

I asked this question a while back on here and nobody answered it but to all the pro EU people........

We BUY more from the EU than we SELL to them so do you really think they are going to make it difficult for us to trade with them? If they do, it is the EU countries that will be worse off.

Far too sensible a question. The Remainers will ignore it.

 

[FairwayDodger]

And so CrazyFace said quite clearly and confidently that we pay £350million A WEEK into the EU. I've heard this figure used by Brexiteers before and talked of as solving all of our problems - including being able to come out of austerity measures, fix the NHS etc etc - so I had a very quick look into it. And the £350million figure turns out quite simply to not be true

Indeed, the the £350 million figure is disingenuous at best.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-send-350m-week-brussels/22804

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Yes

Yes.......... a case of Stuff You red wine please.

More fool them then!

 

[ColchesterFC]

I do hope you realise that there is a bit more to the hospitality industry than low paid jobs.
In The North of Scotland there is not the depth of population to cover all the jobs. Those businesses would fail without those workers. Turnberry for an example has very few local staff as the level of expertise they demand is not met by the local job market.

Thank you for your seemingly condescending reply. Having worked in the hospitality industry for over 15 years (including The Old Course Hotel and the R&A Clubhouse in St Andrews as well a less well to do bars and restaurants) I would say that I have a fairly good grasp of the industry as a whole.

Are you seriously suggesting that there aren't enough unemployed people in Scotland to fill jobs in hospitality and tourism without using migrant workers. According to the first link below in Autumn 2015 there were 170000 people in Scotland classed as unemployed. Not all of them will be sutiable for jobs in hospitality but to suggest that those businesses would collapse if there wasn't migrant labour is at best disingenous and at worst and outright lie. The table below copied from the second link shows that there are 4200 people in South Ayrshire alone that are looking for work. Surely some of them would be suitable instead of a migrant worker? And what exactly is this "level of expertise" required by Turnberry?

	South Ayrshire (Level)	South Ayrshire (%)	Scotland (%)	Great Britain (%)
All People
Total	15,800	23.2	22.2	22.3
Student	3,400	21.3	26.4	26.2
Looking After Family/Home	3,100	19.8	20.0	25.3
Temporary Sick	#	#	2.6	2.2
Long-Term Sick	4,000	25.1	26.3	21.8
Discouraged	#	#	0.3	0.4
Retired	3,400	21.7	15.9	14.0
Other	1,200	7.3	8.6	10.0
Wants A Job	4,200	26.8	23.3	24.2
Does Not Want A Job	11,600	73.2	76.7	75.8

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-34526958

https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/reports/lmp/la/1946157432/report.aspx#tabempunemp

 

[FairwayDodger]

More fool them then!

Just a fact of life. There would be additional barriers in place. The UK would be diminished outside of the EU and the EU would be diminished without the UK being a member.