EU Referendum

[SocketRocket]

What is our 'fair share'?

My point remains though. I do fear that this referendum is going to swing on the xenophobia (verging on racism and bigotry) of a relatively small % of the UK population; a group who will use Leave statements on immigration fears, as justification for their beliefs and for voting out.

And so today the NFU jon the Scottish Farmers Union to support Remain. Another group to be ignored by Brexiteers - no doubt this time because we are not all farmers and agriculture and farming don't impact their day-to-day life (see previously the scientists). And of course many farmers will be wondering where they will get the cheap unskilled labour to work in their fields and harvesting once the points system blocks entry into the UK of such low-skilled individuals from central and eastern Europe

A points system is designed to allow people with the skills (or lack of) we need in the country. If we need people to work in the fields then there would be a quota for it but not an unlimited number. How on earth did we manage to work the fields previously?

By 'Our fair share' I mean exactly what I say, IMO we take in more than enough immigrants, the stats suggest 636,000 last year but I suspect it's way more than this as the methods that check this are very poor. If you look at the NI numbers issued to Foreign Nationals then it suggests these figures are not correct. I know you would be happy with much higher numbers but I just dont agree with you, but Hey Ho thats what personal opinions are all about, I would not be so crass to suggest you should not hold that view or it's based on stupid beliefs. Suggesting the reason people think immigration is too high is mainly due to racism and bigotry is a poor way to make a point. IMO of course.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

And of course many farmers will be wondering where they will get the cheap unskilled labour to work in their fields and harvesting once the points system blocks entry into the UK of such low-skilled individuals from central and eastern Europe

How about from the dole queue?

 

[Old Skier]

How about from the dole queue?

There's a radical thought.

 

[Old Skier]

Suggesting the reason people think immigration is too high is mainly due to racism and bigotry is a poor way to make a point. IMO of course.

Usually suggested by those where the influx of immigrants is very low.

 

[SocketRocket]

Usually suggested by those where the influx of immigrants is very low.

Yes, like Chipping Norton.

 

[Fish]

How about from the dole queue?

But they need to get back to their cash-in-hand jobs quick and can't hang around for an interview, or they need to get back to watch Jeremy Kyle, mind you, they could record it as they do have Sky TV!

We need more benefit cheat enforcement teams, they would comfortably be self funded with the huge amount of savings they'd make, I bet there isn't a single person on here who doesn't know someone who is working for cash in some way and yet claiming something?

Until we get our own lazy buggers into work the attraction to come here and work will always be key to any migration/immigration, to have so many unemployed and yet have so many people on benefits and yet have a wealth of unskilled work available which is why they are coming, in the main, is just plain daft and those plug holes need plugging!

If you choose not to work where there is shown and proved to be work available, you get squat, nuffin', zero, in fact, we should do an exchange, let's ship those lazy buggers of our out to Eastern Europe and keep the one's that want to work and contribute :thup:

 

[Doon frae Troon]

But they need to get back to their cash-in-hand jobs quick and can't hang around for an interview, or they need to get back to watch Jeremy Kyle, mind you, they could record it as they do have Sky TV!

We need more benefit cheat enforcement teams, they would comfortably be self funded with the huge amount of savings they'd make, I bet there isn't a single person on here who doesn't know someone who is working for cash in some way and yet claiming something?

Until we get our own lazy buggers into work the attraction to come here and work will always be key to any migration/immigration, to have so many unemployed and yet have so many people on benefits and yet have a wealth of unskilled work available which is why they are coming, in the main, is just plain daft and those plug holes need plugging!

If you choose not to work where there is shown and proved to be work available, you get squat, nuffin', zero, in fact, we should do an exchange, let's ship those lazy buggers of our out to Eastern Europe and keep the one's that want to work and contribute :thup:

Well said sir.
The Eastern European immigrants that I have met in Scotland are virtually all, skilled, hard working, polite and most importantly... tax payers.
The hospitality/tourism areas have really benefited from their inclusion.

 

[jp5]

Well said sir.
The Eastern European immigrants that I have met in Scotland are virtually all, skilled, hard working, polite and most importantly... tax payers.
The hospitality/tourism areas have really benefited from their inclusion.

Then they'd have no problems if we issued visas for hospitality workers!

 

[User62651]

For the first time since I've been eligible to vote I may actually abstain from voting in this one. I do not believe I am being informed of any facts yet, on a daily basis now the government (who's own party members are wholly divided) are spinning whatever fear inducing message they can to persuade undecideds like me to vote 'in' and the out campaign are not really competing at the moment to get their view over. Osbourne says one thing then ex chancellor Lamont is on Sky news saying it's all wrong...who to believe? I would be far more inclined to believe Lamont than Osbourne tbh.
Like the Scottish referendum a year and a half ago this is just going to divide the populace and the government for lack of anything positive to say are using fearmongering as their main tool, really poor negative show from Cameron again. To be fair he's stuck to his promise to offer this EU in out vote, expecting an easy result I believe, now that easy win is looking more difficult to achieve, he's resorted to type, I expect he will likely win but at what cost?
My one hope is that the vote is decisive i.e at least 65/35 split one way or the other. 60/40 or closer is not decisive enough for me.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A points system is designed to allow people with the skills (or lack of) we need in the country. If we need people to work in the fields then there would be a quota for it but not an unlimited number. How on earth did we manage to work the fields previously?

By 'Our fair share' I mean exactly what I say, IMO we take in more than enough immigrants, the stats suggest 636,000 last year but I suspect it's way more than this as the methods that check this are very poor. If you look at the NI numbers issued to Foreign Nationals then it suggests these figures are not correct. I know you would be happy with much higher numbers but I just dont agree with you, but Hey Ho thats what personal opinions are all about, I would not be so crass to suggest you should not hold that view or it's based on stupid beliefs. Suggesting the reason people think immigration is too high is mainly due to racism and bigotry is a poor way to make a point. IMO of course.

I am only suggesting that it is a base reason for a small minority lf those concerned about immigration - and if the margin in the referendum is small it would be a pity if those with such views held sway.

 

[SocketRocket]

I am only suggesting that it is a base reason for a small minority lf those concerned about immigration - and if the margin in the referendum is small it would be a pity if those with such views held sway.

I think immigration is the major driver of people wanting to vote 'Leave'. If we had been able to get agreement with the EU to have the ability to either have a points based system or a 'Brake' under our control then the 'Stay' vote would win hands down. I dont think that would ever happen with the EU, although it may have to look differently at the matter when the current wave of migrants get to a critical stage that has the chance of destabilisation in Europe.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think immigration is the major driver of people wanting to vote 'Leave'. If we had been able to get agreement with the EU to have the ability to either have a points based system or a 'Brake' under our control then the 'Stay' vote would win hands down. I dont think that would ever happen with the EU, although it may have to look differently at the matter when the current wave of migrants get to a critical stage that has the chance of destabilisation in Europe.

I think it underpins the intentions of a huge % of those wishing to leave, I rather wish it didn't. BTW mailbox full

 

[Crazyface]

For the first time since I've been eligible to vote I may actually abstain from voting in this one. I do not believe I am being informed of any facts yet, on a daily basis now the government (who's own party members are wholly divided) are spinning whatever fear inducing message they can to persuade undecideds like me to vote 'in' and the out campaign are not really competing at the moment to get their view over. Osbourne says one thing then ex chancellor Lamont is on Sky news saying it's all wrong...who to believe? I would be far more inclined to believe Lamont than Osbourne tbh.
Like the Scottish referendum a year and a half ago this is just going to divide the populace and the government for lack of anything positive to say are using fearmongering as their main tool, really poor negative show from Cameron again. To be fair he's stuck to his promise to offer this EU in out vote, expecting an easy result I believe, now that easy win is looking more difficult to achieve, he's resorted to type, I expect he will likely win but at what cost?
My one hope is that the vote is decisive i.e at least 65/35 split one way or the other. 60/40 or closer is not decisive enough for me.

I'll give you one fact. We won't have to pay £350 MILLION pounds A WEEK to the EU. What more to you need to know?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I see I am being enticed to vote Brexit to honour the British soldiers who lost their lives in the two world wars.

No surprise who came up with that little gem.

Latest polls have Remain nearly 10 points ahead.

 

[ger147]

I see I am being enticed to vote Brexit to honour the British soldiers who lost their lives in the two world wars.

No surprise who came up with that little gem.

Latest polls have Remain nearly 10 points ahead.

You got any links to the latest polls? Only reason for asking is I posted a link just yesterday to the poll of all recent polls and it was still too close to call.

 

[SocketRocket]

I think it underpins the intentions of a huge % of those wishing to leave, I rather wish it didn't. BTW mailbox full

Sorted.

 

[SocketRocket]

I see I am being enticed to vote Brexit to honour the British soldiers who lost their lives in the two world wars.

No surprise who came up with that little gem.

Latest polls have Remain nearly 10 points ahead.

Polls are not worth looking at, they have been so wrong so many times now. I just don't waste time looking at them.

 

[User62651]

I'll give you one fact. We won't have to pay £350 MILLION pounds A WEEK to the EU. What more to you need to know?

Ok here's just a snippet -
Will UK leaving force the collpase of the EU and could Europe fall into bickering and war again without an EU?
Will Brexit really help control unwanted migration, the migrants that a lot of us are concerned about i.e. at the Calais camps are not coming from the EU. EU migrants in my area are not numerous and seem to do a good job.
After Brexit will I need a visa to visit EU countries?
Where I grew up (Highlands of Scotland) it was an EU objective 5b area and has benefitted enormously from EU grants, I cant see any equivalent spend from UK govt if we were no EU. Therefore that £350m could be money well spent in places of lower population in the UK where the SE focussed govt dont give an arse about.
What happens to all the EU citizens who have already settled and made lives here - can they stay?
Will UK as a whole voting out and Scotland/Wales/Ni having voted in, does that force the end of the UK anyway?
etc etc

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You got any links to the latest polls? Only reason for asking is I posted a link just yesterday to the poll of all recent polls and it was still too close to call.

Sorry Ger, I can't seem to re-find it.
It was out today on one of those news links.
Quite surprised me, hence post.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ok here's just a snippet -
Will UK leaving force the collpase of the EU and could Europe fall into bickering and war again without an EU?
Will Brexit really help control unwanted migration, the migrants that a lot of us are concerned about i.e. at the Calais camps are not coming from the EU. EU migrants in my area are not numerous and seem to do a good job.
After Brexit will I need a visa to visit EU countries?
Where I grew up (Highlands of Scotland) it was an EU objective 5b area and has benefitted enormously from EU grants, I cant see any equivalent spend from UK govt if we were no EU. Therefore that £350m could be money well spent in places of lower population in the UK where the SE focussed govt dont give an arse about.
What happens to all the EU citizens who have already settled and made lives here - can they stay?
Will UK as a whole voting out and Scotland/Wales/Ni having voted in, does that force the end of the UK anyway?
etc etc

No
Yes
No
I can.
Yes
Yes
No

Etc, Etc ?

Sorted!