jdpjamesp
Q-School Graduate
True, but we act as a part of the EU?
EU Referendum
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Last line has it in one.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
We act as part of the UN and NATO not EU
jdpjamesp
Q-School Graduate
I stand corrected. As you were.
CheltenhamHacker
Journeyman Pro
Of course I am prepared to meet the difference. Where do you think the money the EU uses comes from?
The issue being that this £10bn (or whatever it is) funding gap is suddenly being promised to 101 different areas.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
That's not what I meant, forget the funding gap. We already pay money into the EU every week and part of that money is currently being put into research and development.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
So where are all the research bodies/institutions supporting the case for Brexit and stating that they are confident that their research programmes won't be affected or stating that they will be happy to accommodate any reduction in funding. Surely with many in the Science and Research community coming out stating the case for staying and the risks of leaving - the equivalent community in the Brexit camp will be making their point - or is it that that community just does not exist, and in that resounding silence is the Remain case made for Scientific Research?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Many ? Really ?
Who exactly because I haven't heard anyone bar that link you put up ?
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I think I kicked off this whole sorry episode about science funding about 3 thousand posts back saying Hawking and 150 Royal Society Scientists, including 3 Nobel laureates and The Astronomer Royal, wrote a letter to The Times saying they wanted us to stay in. Not sure if that counts as 'many' in the fact based proof world we live in on this forum. Possibly it's 'quite a few', certainly 'a decent number' and I'd go as far as saying more than 'a handful' .
Sorry but I do not know each of their names through before you ask for that. The ghost of Magnus Pyke and Patrick Moore may have been in there, but I can't confirm that. Also possibly Nina from Nina and the Neurons on CBBC? Doc from Back to the Future?? The 2 nerdy lads who created Kelly LeBrock in Weird Science? Sorry, I'm struggling here.
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IanG
Tour Rookie
At the risk of seeming like an arrogant and somewhat lazy git I'm quoting a post I made over a year ago about the Scottish Independence Referendum. With the obvious swapping out of words I think it applies pretty much identically to the upcoming EU referendum.
" Surely the independence decision is so momentous and long term that details about whether we're £1000 better or worse off, or whether UKIP will form the next Westminster government are not the real basis on which we who have a vote should be deciding.
This is good news really because (in my opinion) we will not have reliable information on any such detailed questions come polling day.
The way I see it is that we need to ask ourselves simply "do we WANT to be independent" or "do we WANT to be part of the UK"? And by "want" I'm afraid I mean in our guts & hearts. For such a long term decision, known unknowns such whether England will vote the UK out of Europe are small beer in comparison to what country we want to live in.
Take an example, imagine someone persuaded you that it would be economically better to become the 52nd state of the USA. Despite all the geo-political clout that would bring, would you sign up? I suspect most of us would answer rather fast with a 'thanks but, no-thanks', because we don't 'want' to be part of the US. We don't need, nor should we use, microscopic analysis to know the answer.
So when all the froth has died away and we find ourselves alone in the polling booth in September, I suspect most of us will find it pretty easy to know which way we want to vote. And if we all answer that question honestly we'll get the correct outcome for both Scotland and the rUK - whatever that is. Finding out the answer is the purpose of the poll after all. "
I fear the thirst for 'facts' and 'proof will remain unquenched.
Ian
" Surely the independence decision is so momentous and long term that details about whether we're £1000 better or worse off, or whether UKIP will form the next Westminster government are not the real basis on which we who have a vote should be deciding.
This is good news really because (in my opinion) we will not have reliable information on any such detailed questions come polling day.
The way I see it is that we need to ask ourselves simply "do we WANT to be independent" or "do we WANT to be part of the UK"? And by "want" I'm afraid I mean in our guts & hearts. For such a long term decision, known unknowns such whether England will vote the UK out of Europe are small beer in comparison to what country we want to live in.
Take an example, imagine someone persuaded you that it would be economically better to become the 52nd state of the USA. Despite all the geo-political clout that would bring, would you sign up? I suspect most of us would answer rather fast with a 'thanks but, no-thanks', because we don't 'want' to be part of the US. We don't need, nor should we use, microscopic analysis to know the answer.
So when all the froth has died away and we find ourselves alone in the polling booth in September, I suspect most of us will find it pretty easy to know which way we want to vote. And if we all answer that question honestly we'll get the correct outcome for both Scotland and the rUK - whatever that is. Finding out the answer is the purpose of the poll after all.
" I fear the thirst for 'facts' and 'proof will remain unquenched.
Ian
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Thankyou HK - the thing about the statements by this specific scientific community is that the Brexiteers respnse to it seems to me to be symptomatic of the state of play. Remain supporters try and state a case and highlight risks - Brexiteers dismiss it as being from a vested-interest; part of Remain campaign; irrelevant or scaremongering, and that is it.
So here we have it - a sizeable body from the scientific community state the case - and what do Brexit do? They question whether the scientific body is 'big' or 'representative'
Truth is - it doesn't really matter - because other than from a few disparate individuals I am not hearing from an equivalent body supporting the Brexit case.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Maybe because in the grand scheme of things is not a big vote swinger for people
Maybe they are too busy right now just carrying on with that they are doing
I said it a while back - you are going to latch on to every Tom dick and Harry that supports staying in the EU and you will demand a response from people wanting to leave
When thinking about what leaving the EU could do for the country and its people - scientific research is something I believe we will always fund both publically and privately regardless.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Irrespective of all the 'expert' opinions being voiced...
Absolutely no one knows, for sure, what will happen irrespective of the eventual outcome of the vote...
Absolutely no one knows, for sure, what will happen irrespective of the eventual outcome of the vote...
Good post. Without a doubt accurate, and with good questions.
At the risk of repetition, for me its still about self determination and ambition. I know we'll lose things, some good things some not so good. I also believe we'll get two very important things (for me). The ability to make our own laws/rules and the opportunity to do things our way(ambition). We may want scientific research to go in a particular direction, or way may want to heavily subsidise a failing industry that current EU law won't permit, e.g. Steel Making on Teesside.
I absolutely defend the direction you will so obviously be voting in. I'll be voting out, even though in the short term it might be a little painful, but I do feel it will be better for the UK long term. I feel the EU is failing, and that failure will accelerate with the inclusion of Turkey, but that isn't my reasons for voting out. Self determination and an ambition to grow beyond the limits imposed by EU legislation, e.g. restrictions on subsidies, are my reasons.
Ethan
Money List Winner
So you prefer 'inexpert' opinions?
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
They'll be just as 'useful' as the 'expert' ones as to what will happen post referendum...
Ethan
Money List Winner
That is another point on which you and I disagree.
Even the basic argument you make, that nobody knows what will happen, even if that is true, that means a period of huge uncertainty. The stock markets hate uncertainty, so the stock market will take a dive, along with your pension fund (depending on where it is invested) and mine.
There is an old notion that even if you are in an unsatisfactory place (and I don't agree that UK in the EU is that), you should never assume that it couldn't be worse elsewhere. It can often by very much worse. You should also require a high burden of evidence needed to take that leap into the unknown.
Brexit is a massive risk, and all the bluster about the UK not having enough belief is comically naive and just pandering to a misguided sense of patriotism.
Del_Boy
Head Pro
That's my reason for staying as no one has got a scubby what the impact will be if we leave.
Bit like someone rings me up and says I've got this great job for you at Company X only snag I'll tell you when you start what you are doing or how much you'll get paid. Would I leave my current role even if it was crap for this. Unlikely.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
It suits many institutions like Universities to stay in the EU, they get a lot of Undergraduates from there and are concerned that they will lose revenue if we leave. If they came out and said that then I could understand their concerns but to suggest that research and development would become an extinct species in the UK if we leave is IMO not true. You can of course ignore my opinion or consider it wrong but I assure you it is not a scare story, more a story of hope and confidence in my Nation.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I dont think thats a good analogy. A better one would be if a Friend rang you up and said I am starting a new business, how would you like to come and join me so that we could make our own way rather than be minions in the current outfit that seems to be losing it's way.
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