EU Referendum

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Ordinary working folk have already 'lost' a great deal due to 'globalisation' [of which EU membership is a part]... So, I am more than willing to 'risk' a bit of de-globalisation as a step in the right direction to restore some balance...

UK business and exports will suffer if were to de-globalise a bit - even if such a thing were possible - we live in a 365x7 interconnected world.

For instance - where do our car manufacturers get their steel from? We know it is no longer the UK. But we can sort that by imposing import tariffs on steel to encourage our own steel industry to flourish. But do we have the steel making capacity? Not at the moment - and even if we can rebuild the capacity can we produce steel at the cost the manufacturers need to be able to sell their UK-produced vehicles at their required price-point? And if our steel or imported steel with the import tariff is too expensive - and the cars are hence too expensive to build, and then add EU import tariffs on our cars - then the manufacturers may well move their plants to where they can build the cars economically.

Globalisation and interconnected business, industry and commerce are facts of life that did not exist in anything like their current form pre-EEC membership days. The environment was totally different back then and there is no point in the UK trying to play today the ball game that worked back then.

Just saying.

 

[MegaSteve]

UK business and exports will suffer if were to de-globalise a bit - even if such a thing were possible - we live in a 365x7 interconnected world.

For instance - where do our car manufacturers get their steel from? We know it is no longer the UK. But we can sort that by imposing import tariffs on steel to encourage our own steel industry to flourish. But do we have the steel making capacity? Not at the moment - and even if we can rebuild the capacity can we produce steel at the cost the manufacturers need to be able to sell their UK-produced vehicles at their required price-point? And if our steel or imported steel with the import tariff is too expensive - and the cars are hence too expensive to build, and then add EU import tariffs on our cars - then the manufacturers may well move their plants to where they can build the cars economically.

Globalisation and interconnected business, industry and commerce are facts of life that did not exist in anything like their current form pre-EEC membership days. The environment was totally different back then and there is no point in the UK trying to play today the ball game that worked back then.

Just saying.

Jeepers Hogie some serious corporate speak in there ...

With the path we are taking now, I see no future for my grandsons... With a diversion, I am hoping for some change in their chances... At worst, I don't believe the possibilities will be diminished...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Jeepers Hogie some serious corporate speak in there ...

With the path we are taking now, I see no future for my grandsons... With a diversion, I am hoping for some change in their chances... At worst, I don't believe the possibilities will be diminished...

And of course none of it is scaremongering

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And of course none of it is scaremongering

I really don't think it is.

If we produce our own steel - using our 'our own' people - once we have built or re-opened the steel works - we will have a base wages structure that will be higher than it is today (no more low wage Eastern Europeans doing the basic unskilled work). Then I cannot see how our steel can be anything but significantly more expensive than, say, Chinese steel. With higher car manufacturing wage costs and higher steel costs how do our manufacturers make cars at the cost they do today? And as we will have imposed import tariffs (as a minimum on steel) it is likely that there will be some (maybe not significant - but some) import tariffs for exporting these cars to Europe and RoW, and there will be a cost associated with having access to the single EU market for these exports.

And so I then simply ask why would the manufacturers therefore continue to manufacture cars here if they can build them and sell them cheaper by being based in the EU?

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

Jeepers Hogie some serious corporate speak in there ...

With the path we are taking now, I see no future for my grandsons... With a diversion, I am hoping for some change in their chances... At worst, I don't believe the possibilities will be diminished...

Genuine question with no agenda, what path are we taking now? And why do you see no future in it?

 

[ColchesterFC]

Why would we have to produce the steel here? Why wouldn't we just keep buying cheaper steel from China or wherever and let the car manufacturers keep making cars at the current price? No point in boosting our steel industry (do we have one left) while shafting the car manufacturers at the same time.

 

[bluewolf]

Genuine question with no agenda, what path are we taking now? And why do you see no future in it?

Because unfettered capitalism requires constant growth. And you can't have constant growth when some of the variables are finite. Such as land space and the ability to provide food for an increasing population.

 

[bluewolf]

Why would we have to produce the steel here? Why wouldn't we just keep buying cheaper steel from China or wherever and let the car manufacturers keep making cars at the current price? No point in boosting our steel industry (do we have one left) while shafting the car manufacturers at the same time.

He was replying to a post about De-Globalisation. If you want to keep things local, then buying from China is not feasible.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Ah OK. Couldn't work out why he would suggest using more expensive home made steel but that makes sense now cheers.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why would we have to produce the steel here? Why wouldn't we just keep buying cheaper steel from China or wherever and let the car manufacturers keep making cars at the current price? No point in boosting our steel industry (do we have one left) while shafting the car manufacturers at the same time.

Because I am hearing a lot from the Brexit side that uses steel making as an example of where being in the EU has had a very detrimental effect on our steel industry - and where were we to leave the EU we could turn that industry around. And we also hear how immigration controls will exclude the low skilled Eastern Europeans taking UK jobs - at depressed wages. So no more Eastern Europeans - UK jobs for UK people - paid more than business and industry currently pays. Costs go up - how can they not?

 

[Jacko_G]

Careful! He's allowed to throw insults but if you respond he'll edit your response. Abuse of position?

Very interesting. A bit of research shows he likes to threaten violence too! Quality man! Still let him get his wee kicks. Bless.

 

[MegaSteve]

Genuine question with no agenda, what path are we taking now? And why do you see no future in it?

We need to start making 'stuff' again... Not just warehouse it... Sticking with the current program won't see any changes to effect this... So, we need to change the program... Globalisation [hate that word] is great for business but a rough deal for working folk...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We need to start making 'stuff' again... Not just warehouse it... Sticking with the current program won't see any changes to effect this... So, we need to change the program... Globalisation [hate that word] is great for business but a rough deal for working folk...

It's also carp for the exploited workers overseas who make the cheap stuff we so crave and buy from the likes of Primark - as well as more 'quality' outlets - and then chuck as it's so cheap. Almost not worth spending the money machine washing t-shirts that cost £1.

 

[Foxholer]

That's my reason for staying as no one has got a scubby what the impact will be if we leave.

Bit like someone rings me up and says I've got this great job for you at Company X only snag I'll tell you when you start what you are doing or how much you'll get paid. Would I leave my current role even if it was crap for this. Unlikely.

I dont think thats a good analogy. A better one would be if a Friend rang you up and said I am starting a new business, how would you like to come and join me so that we could make our own way rather than be minions in the current outfit that seems to be losing it's way.

Actually, BOTH have certain merits (and deficiencies) as analogies imo!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Boris (just not) Gudonov today

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...oris-johnson-brexit-treasury-select-committee

It might be funny - if he were not pretending that it were true and is quite possibly our next Prime Minister

So for example he cites EU legislation banning under 8yr olds from blowing up balloons, which would indeed be frankly ludicrous - were it true - which in the world of BoJo it is - as it would be for anyone listening to him who might hang on his every word as truth.

But the truth is that the EU legislation is that packets of balloons should be sold with a sticker warning of the dangers of unsupervised under 8s blowing up balloons - which is not so ludicrous at all - and actually rather sensible. And there was more, much more...so that even a senior Tory MP on the committee got absolutely fed up with his waffle and disingenousness.

But in BoJo's world let's not worry about the truth of the matter - let's just exaggerate or indeed just make stuff up. This is quite possibly a future PM - and the leader of the Brexit campaign. He is a dissembling rogue.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I find it amusing that institutions such as the CBI, OBR and MSM that were quoted to death as 'untouchable experts' in the Scottish referendum are now being rubbished to death in the EU referendum.

 

[jp5]

Boris (just not) Gudonov today

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...oris-johnson-brexit-treasury-select-committee

It might be funny - if he were not pretending that it were true and is quite possibly our next Prime Minister

So for example he cites EU legislation banning under 8yr olds from blowing up balloons, which would indeed be frankly ludicrous - were it true - which in the world of BoJo it is - as it would be for anyone listening to him who might hang on his every word as truth.

But the truth is that the EU legislation is that packets of balloons should be sold with a sticker warning of the dangers of unsupervised under 8s blowing up balloons - which is not so ludicrous at all - and actually rather sensible. And there was more, much more...so that even a senior Tory MP on the committee got absolutely fed up with his waffle and disingenousness.

But in BoJo's world let's not worry about the truth of the matter - let's just exaggerate or indeed just make stuff up. This is quite possibly a future PM - and the leader of the Brexit campaign. He is a dissembling rogue.

Slightly ironic

Worth a watch on iPlayer instead of relying on the Guardian testimony. Though I expect you have made your mind up already.

Thought the pro-remain committee members' questioning was as poor as you make out Johnson's responses to be. Only difference was that the chair was happy to reprimand BJ but not his own committee members for interrupting each other!

 

[Old Skier]

Boris (just not) Gudonov today

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...oris-johnson-brexit-treasury-select-committee

It might be funny - if he were not pretending that it were true and is quite possibly our next Prime Minister

So for example he cites EU legislation banning under 8yr olds from blowing up balloons, which would indeed be frankly ludicrous - were it true - which in the world of BoJo it is - as it would be for anyone listening to him who might hang on his every word as truth.

But the truth is that the EU legislation is that packets of balloons should be sold with a sticker warning of the dangers of unsupervised under 8s blowing up balloons - which is not so ludicrous at all - and actually rather sensible. And there was more, much more...so that even a senior Tory MP on the committee got absolutely fed up with his waffle and disingenousness.

But in BoJo's world let's not worry about the truth of the matter - let's just exaggerate or indeed just make stuff up. This is quite possibly a future PM - and the leader of the Brexit campaign. He is a dissembling rogue.

If a parent needs a warning notice then their ability to be a parent is in doubt.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If a parent needs a warning notice then their ability to be a parent is in doubt.

Really? So we just don't bother with any warnings about such things...that's the answer - the EU meddling. In this sort of thing let the meddle.

But no matter - you make the point as it diverts from BoJo's disingenuousness in such things - a disingenousness that is quite clear but that he doesn't care about because he says it with a confused and bemused smile, a laugh and a blustering guffaw. But the lie is out there. EU legislation to ban 8yr olds from blowing up balloons.

 

[SocketRocket]

I find it amusing that institutions such as the CBI, OBR and MSM that were quoted to death as 'untouchable experts' in the Scottish referendum are now being rubbished to death in the EU referendum.

Osbo has said in his Budget speech that the OBR has stated that the Uk would be worse off if we left the EU. The OBR has denied this claim saying it has made no such forecast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35824624