EU Referendum

[MegaSteve]

Boss of Ford UK was on radio 5 this morning. Who said that they employ 14,000 people in the UK and the easy access to the EU free market was essential for Ford in the UK. Think he made it pretty clear where they, and I am pretty sure every other car manufacturer in the UK stand.

At the time we were considering entering the Eurozone the managements of Toyota, Nissan and Honda plus I am sure others all said if we didn't sign up there would be a good chance they would be gone... Well, they are still here... The head of JCB [though not necessarily a car manufacturer in the truest sense] has long since indicated leaving wouldn't be an issue and he favours leaving anyway...

Back in the day a lot of my family worked for the blue oval and Ford haven't really been UK worker 'friendly' since the Dagenham Girls...

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Perhaps we forget the 'off-balance sheet' benefits the UK and we who live here get from the UK being in the EU - environmental, freedom of travel and work etc.

You think those 'benefits' outweigh the negatives?

We are quite capable of looking after our own environment. Travel was never an issue pre-EU, I've got a passport and perfectly able to apply for a visa if required.

Work? There are more people coming into this country to work than emigrating to work abroad.

I agree we don't know what lies ahead if we decided to leave the EU but I'm prepared to take the chance as I think at present there are some pretty serious issues in the UK.

 

[Hacker Khan]

https://twitter.com/search?q=#WhoWillSpeakForEngland&src=tyah&lang=en-gb

For anyone on twitter this is funny.

 

[Hobbit]

It isn't what we signed up for?. That is a pretty weak argument, isn't it? How many people who voted for or against the EU understand the complexity of international agreements, trade or laws? Even in this debate, most of those opposing the EU seem to think it is only about trade and all these laws made in Brussels. They don't seem to even know that the EU is responsible for a huge range of things including the approval and safety of medicines, air traffic control, anti-discrimination, consumer rights, regulating internet security not to mention keeping peace in a Europe which had 2 huge wars in the preceding half century.

There's some very big assumptions in there Ethan. And the EU being responsible for those things, and imposing those laws on the UK is very much what I'm against, and yes I am aware of by who and where they are made.

As for your comment about keeping peace in Europe, that's pretty weak too. WW2 ended in 45, and the Common Market/federal state was formed/morphed into its current being a long time after 45.

You have one view on why, and I have another. Yours appears to be around being part of a federal Europe, with European laws, and I wish to be part of a Common Market/trading bloc but retaining a very clear national identity and control.

Dissect it whatever way you wish, and you're right in your eyes, but you're yet to come close to changing my mind on what I would prefer.

 

[JohnnyDee]

https://twitter.com/search?q=#WhoWillSpeakForEngland&src=tyah&lang=en-gb

For anyone on twitter this is funny.

Yes it is, very funny!!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

At the time we were considering entering the Eurozone the managements of Toyota, Nissan and Honda plus I am sure others all said if we didn't sign up there would be a good chance they would be gone... Well, they are still here... The head of JCB [though not necessarily a car manufacturer in the truest sense] has long since indicated leaving wouldn't be an issue and he favours leaving anyway...

Back in the day a lot of my family worked for the blue oval and Ford haven't really been UK worker 'friendly' since the Dagenham Girls...

GlaxoSmithKline chairman yesterday says - yes let's get some reforms "but it's better to be in and improving it than to be on the outside trying to plot a new course" He went on to say that he liked the regulatory certainty and predictability of the EU.

 

[Ethan]

There's some very big assumptions in there Ethan. And the EU being responsible for those things, and imposing those laws on the UK is very much what I'm against, and yes I am aware of by who and where they are made.

As for your comment about keeping peace in Europe, that's pretty weak too. WW2 ended in 45, and the Common Market/federal state was formed/morphed into its current being a long time after 45.

You have one view on why, and I have another. Yours appears to be around being part of a federal Europe, with European laws, and I wish to be part of a Common Market/trading bloc but retaining a very clear national identity and control.

Dissect it whatever way you wish, and you're right in your eyes, but you're yet to come close to changing my mind on what I would prefer.

I don't expect to change your mind. Not trying.

The EU is the offspring of prior organisations set up in the 1950s, including the 1951 European Coal and Steel Community, which evolved into the 1958 EEC. Not that long after WW2, really. Whether it has prevented war or not is certainly debatable.

The EU imposes few pieces of primary legislation on the UK. And most of that which it does is good law.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

https://twitter.com/search?q=#WhoWillSpeakForEngland&src=tyah&lang=en-gb

For anyone on twitter this is funny.

They just can't help themselves can they.........that headline will run and run.

 

[MegaSteve]

GlaxoSmithKline chairman yesterday says - yes let's get some reforms "but it's better to be in and improving it than to be on the outside trying to plot a new course" He went on to say that he liked the regulatory certainty and predictability of the EU.

There are two things I really don't give two hoots about...

The views of big business and the Tory press....

Both, for me, tell porkys to suit their agendas...

 

[Snelly]

I want out.

It has been highly beneficial for Norway. I think we will go the same way.

 

[delc]

I think if you are expecting the roads in London not to be gridlocked at peak commuter times than you are living in la la land. They are in any city due to the massive amount of people that are trying to use a road system that more often than not laid out many decades, even centuries ago when the population and car ownership was a fraction of what it is now.

The traffic wasn't anything like as bad as it is now only five or six years ago. Most of it seems to be related to the school run, because the roads are OK in the school holidays. I suspect that a lot of the kids in school are the children of all the immigrants that were allowed to flood into the UK by the last New Labour Government, and things are only going to get worse when the next lot arrive, unless a lot of money is spent on new infrastructure!

 

[Ethan]

I want out.

It has been highly beneficial for Norway. I think we will go the same way.

The UK is more like Germany than Norway. Norway has substantial natural resources and is a net creditor to the world. They have had coalition governments for decades and provide excellent welfare and social security benefits. Many goods are hideously expensive and the cost of living is the highest in Europe.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You think those 'benefits' outweigh the negatives?

We are quite capable of looking after our own environment. Travel was never an issue pre-EU, I've got a passport and perfectly able to apply for a visa if required.

Work? There are more people coming into this country to work than emigrating to work abroad.

I agree we don't know what lies ahead if we decided to leave the EU but I'm prepared to take the chance as I think at present there are some pretty serious issues in the UK.

I'm not suggesting that they outweigh them - just that they do not seem to matter - as all that seems to matter to LEAVE is 'we pay more money in than we get back'

And I have no doubt that we are capable of looking after our own environment - after all we are doing it at the moment - in accordance with EU statutes. Remove such control and requirements, and with business hand-in-glove with 20-30yrs of Tory government - well I'm not so sure that the same business that funds and supports Tory government won't be looking for some relaxations and a different approach to environmental protection.

 

[Foxholer]

I want out.

It has been highly beneficial for Norway. I think we will go the same way.

Norway has never been in the EU!

Its best decision was, imo, not rejection of EU membership by its voters, but the setting up of The Oil Fund for excess profits from its North Sea fields! Norway's economy is significantly (vastly even!) different than UK's but that's where its greatest wealth is - as opposed to the UK's simple spending of the proceeds form it ones!

 

[MegaSteve]

The traffic wasn't anything like as bad as it is now only five or six years ago. Most of it seems to be related to the school run, because the roads are OK in the school holidays. I suspect that a lot of the kids in school are the children of all the immigrants that were allowed to flood into the UK by the last New Labour Government, and things are only going to get worse when the next lot arrive, unless a lot of money is spent on new infrastructure!

I blame UBER myself and the folk that use their service because using the public mass transport system is beneath them...

But, each to their own...

 

[FairwayDodger]

Ask a Norwegian salmon farmer if he'd like to be in the EU. Being outside is costing them £££££ (or whatever passes for money in them foreign parts).

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

as all that seems to matter to LEAVE is 'we pay more money in than we get back'

Yes this undoubtedly an issue for me personally but certainly not the only one.

Immigration is a big issue for me. I'm sorry but I just don't buy into this theory that we need all the immigrants to fill the low paid jobs. We have a shed load of perfectly capable people dossing about because we are all too willing to pay them benefits. I'm sorry but the Government does NOT owe them a living. Why can't they get off their backsides and earn a living instead of sitting at home?

I wonder what their decision would be if they had the choice of taking a low paid job or receiving no benefits and going hungry. I left school in 1977 and I've been unemployed for a total of 6 months in my career. Sometimes I've had to do jobs I would rather not do but at least I was earning my living and holding my head up.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes this undoubtedly an issue for me personally but certainly not the only one.

Immigration is a big issue for me. I'm sorry but I just don't buy into this theory that we need all the immigrants to fill the low paid jobs. We have a shed load of perfectly capable people dossing about because we are all too willing to pay them benefits. I'm sorry but the Government does NOT owe them a living. Why can't they get off their backsides and earn a living instead of sitting at home?

I wonder what their decision would be if they had the choice of taking a low paid job or receiving no benefits and going hungry. I left school in 1977 and I've been unemployed for a total of 6 months in my career. Sometimes I've had to do jobs I would rather not do but at least I was earning my living and holding my head up.

Which may be true but surely that has zilch to do with immigration.

 

[JamPal]

My Company traded Worldwide and never had any real problems with doing that. we had more problems with nit picking EU regulations. We trade at a deficit with the EU so why is it such an important market for us, surely it's the other way round.

Who says we would need to trade using the Norwegian model, it probably suits them as almost all their trade is within the EU and they have a trade surplus with it. Other countries around the world trade with the EU and are not tied up with EU red tape.

What EU red tape?

in the electronics world we call them standards. All nations have standards, even independent ones. In the EU those standards have been harmonised so we can all trade freely. It's brilliant. The best thing about the EU is the harmonised standards.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Which may be true but surely that has zilch to do with immigration.

I think it has everything to do with immigration. If every eastern European was to leave the country tomorrow there would be an abundance of jobs to allocate to the scroungers. They would then be paying taxes instead of living off them.