EU Referendum

[Lord Tyrion]

Theresa does need to be here for every decision. David Davies is running the Brexit dept. They will have a series of aims and then they will have set the civil service off to collate all of the information together relating to what we need to do to separate ourselves, what is currently entangled. That is the work currently being done.

I don't expect any information from the govt about what it plans to do. Everything is up for negotiation and if you release too much info now, into the public domain, then it becomes a testosterone affair. Better to sort these things out in private where calm decisions are made rather than playing to the galleries.

 

[MarkE]

Does that alter any facts though? Is the article correct - negative story or not?! I suspect that there ARE sources that have provided those estimates. And the German and French elections could well mean that different folk are involved - not so much from Germany imo.

I'm pretty certain that it'll take a lot longer than 2 years to 'untangle ourselves from the eu' mess or no mess! The 2 years was/is merely a, fairly arbitrary, value set to limit Article 50 negotiations - once it is triggered!

Have there been any 'positives' wrt Brexit yet - actual result excluded?

I trust you believe this article is negative! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...ndum-effect-uk-tourism-spending-a7204811.html

As I said, there are positives to the pounds devaluation, increased income from tourism being one. As for positives on brexit, not really as yet, unless you count the fact the UK economy has'nt imploded. I was always a brexit man and expected and accepted there would be a certain amount of upheaval, but apart from a couple of weeks after the result everything is settling down much better than I expected. People are coming to terms with the result and making it work.

 

[SocketRocket]

Does that alter any facts though? Is the article correct - negative story or not?! I suspect that there ARE sources that have provided those estimates. And the German and French elections could well mean that different folk are involved - not so much from Germany imo.

I'm pretty certain that it'll take a lot longer than 2 years to 'untangle ourselves from the eu' mess or no mess! The 2 years was/is merely a, fairly arbitrary, value set to limit Article 50 negotiations - once it is triggered!

Have there been any 'positives' wrt Brexit yet - actual result excluded?

I trust you believe this article is negative! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...ndum-effect-uk-tourism-spending-a7204811.html

The two year period is not arbitrary, its the maximum allowed unless all 27 members agree to an extension.

I think we should do what John Redwood suggests and just invoke article 50 then say we have left and are now a free trade zone, either trade with us tariff free or set tariffs yourself that we will have to reciprocate. Unlike other countries we already have all the trading standards and regulations in place.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The two year period is not arbitrary, its the maximum allowed unless all 27 members agree to an extension.

I think we should do what John Redwood suggests and just invoke article 50 then say we have left and are now a free trade zone, either trade with us tariff free or set tariffs yourself that we will have to reciprocate. Unlike other countries we already have all the trading standards and regulations in place.

John Redwood........:lol: ....how long before, Neil Hamilton suggests.......
We have fallen a long long way.

 

[SocketRocket]

John Redwood........:lol: ....how long before, Neil Hamilton suggests.......
We have fallen a long long way.

Redwood has some very good ideas, unlike you and your Jimmy Crankey cult.

 

[Foxholer]

The two year period is not arbitrary, its the maximum allowed unless all 27 members agree to an extension.
...

Heavens above! Have you considered remedial reading lessons?

Does the word 'limit' (as in 'set to limit Article 50 negotiations') not suggest anything to you?

And you certainly don't need to tell me what the content of Article 50 states!

Btw. You are wrong in the above statement anyway - but I'll let you figure out how!

 

[SocketRocket]

Heavens above! Have you considered remedial reading lessons?

Does the word 'limit' (as in 'set to limit Article 50 negotiations') not suggest anything to you?

And you certainly don't need to tell me what the content of Article 50 states!

Btw. You are wrong in the above statement anyway - but I'll let you figure out how!

You really are an oddball of the first order matey. Did I say something you didn't like once that triggered your strange habit following me around the site trying to discredit everything I post. Never mind it is probably curable given time and a full frontal lobotomy, although I do suspect you have already had one.

You said that you were pretty certain it will take more than two years to extract ourselves from the EU mess or no mess. I was merely educating you in the fact it cannot be extended from two years without the agreement of all 27 EU countries.

I know you don't like being told anything as it offends your superiority complex. Don't worry about it though 'old boy' as I suggested your condition is curable in some cases.

 

[williamalex1]

It sounds like infamy to me, but carry on , lol.

 

[Foxholer]

You really are an oddball of the first order matey. Did I say something you didn't like once that triggered your strange habit following me around the site trying to discredit everything I post. Never mind it is probably curable given time and a full frontal lobotomy, although I do suspect you have already had one.

You said that you were pretty certain it will take more than two years to extract ourselves from the EU mess or no mess. I was merely educating you in the fact it cannot be extended from two years without the agreement of all 27 EU countries.

I know you don't like being told anything as it offends your superiority complex. Don't worry about it though 'old boy' as I suggested your condition is curable in some cases.

Try looking in the mirror!

It's YOU that latched onto MY post (a reply to MarkE) that started THIS 'conversation'!

 

[SocketRocket]

Try looking in the mirror!

It's YOU that latched onto MY post (a reply to MarkE) that started THIS 'conversation'!

Oh Dear

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Despite me thinking that the UK leaving the EU is insane; despite my suspicion that some who voted to leave voted that way for reasons nothing to do with the EU; despite the downright lies put about by the Brexit campaign that may have influenced some to vote to Leave; despite the fact that nobody voting to Leave actually knew quite what they were voting for and the impact that leaving will have on them (and still don't) other than in the broadest terms, and despite the fact that the referendum was only advisory - despite all that I don't think a further referendum is appropriate or in any way desirable.

A second referendum would cause electoral chaos and would be seen by the huge majority as undemocratic. I'm happy to accept that Brexit should go ahead, in fact must go ahead; on the basis of agreements to be reached in the coming 2-3 yrs.

If come the next GE, a year or two after us leaving, the economy is doing just dandy - then I will celebrate and be relieved. At that point Labour can maybe be getting their act together to challenge the Tories on the issues that really affect us and the poorer of society - because given how things are we are currently looking at another 20yrs of Tory government. If things aren't going so well at the next GE then the electorate will judge the Tories in consideration of that. It won't be good - but it seems to me to Labour's only route to government in the next ten years. But do I want Brexit to fail? Of course not - because under a Tory government the cost of failure will be inevitably fall on the narrow shoulders of the poorer.

Let's just get on with it and I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Old Skier]

Does that alter any facts though? Is the article correct - negative story or not?! I suspect that there ARE sources that have provided those estimates. And the German and French elections could well mean that different folk are involved - not so much from Germany imo.

The current governments in France and Germany may even have asked for us to delay doing anything official and stirring up the large exit vote in those countries which may not have been to their advantage and changed the outcome of their elections. Just a thought.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Glad to see that the PM is going to get the cabinet into a brainstorming session to work out what Brexit actually is - now that she realises that saying Brexit means Brexit is meaningless unless Brexit is defined. And so dear PM remember the key principles of Brainstorming sessions. You need a facilitator - and it can't be you as the key stakeholder - it must be someone who understands the complexities of government and can manage an unruly and argumentative group - and so that must be the Foreign Secretary - he of huge brain and organisational skills. And remember no idea is dismissed out of hand as ridiculous - and that includes Brexit itself - they all get a Post-It on the wall and the opportunity to be discussed.

I look forward to seeing the outcome; our objectives for Brexit; and learn who is going to construct the roadmap to the door and how we come back through it once it has been shut behind us, if we in fact go through the door.

 

[SocketRocket]

Glad to see that the PM is going to get the cabinet into a brainstorming session to work out what Brexit actually is - now that she realises that saying Brexit means Brexit is meaningless unless Brexit is defined. And so dear PM remember the key principles of Brainstorming sessions. You need a facilitator - and it can't be you as the key stakeholder - it must be someone who understands the complexities of government and can manage an unruly and argumentative group - and so that must be the Foreign Secretary - he of huge brain and organisational skills. And remember no idea is dismissed out of hand as ridiculous - and that includes Brexit itself - they all get a Post-It on the wall and the opportunity to be discussed.

I look forward to seeing the outcome; our objectives for Brexit; and learn who is going to construct the roadmap to the door and how we come back through it once it has been shut behind us, if we in fact go through the door.

I would imagine they will manage to work out how to run the meeting already. I dont see why we will need to come back through the door and why it needs to be slammed behind us.

 

[SocketRocket]

I am optimistic on what our exit from the EU will produce for us. All the initial bluster from some of the EU commissars were ill thought through IMO. A policy of trying to punish a leaving state is a poor one if it gives the picture that remaining states should decide to stay only because they may be punished if they leave.

I would take a similar stance on negotiations to the likes of Jacob Ress-Mogg that we should not spend time discussing the un-negotialable with things like Free Movement and the Single Market, if the EU demands these as red lines then we should say that is not acceptable to us and will revert to WTO rules. The sooner we complete the discussions the sooner we can start making our way with the rest of the world and discard the straight jacket. If they want to keep their trade advantage with us then they need to make concessions.

On another Brexit point, I read an interesting article by Mervyn King who said that the UK economy has been moving in the wrong direction for too long and has been too reliant on consumer spending which is bound to implode at some time. The lower level of the Pound is something has been needed for some time so that we can work to create more of an exporting economy that promotes manufacturing.

 

[Foxholer]

...
On another Brexit point, I read an interesting article by Mervyn King who said that the UK economy has been moving in the wrong direction for too long and has been too reliant on consumer spending which is bound to implode at some time. The lower level of the Pound is something has been needed for some time so that we can work to create more of an exporting economy that promotes manufacturing.

The challenge for that is twofold - firstly there's generally a considerable start-up/investment cost, which has inherent risk, something that is exaggerated by all the other risks associated with Brexit! Secondly, UK's traditionally poor, confrontational approach to industrial relations need to change!

 

[SocketRocket]

The challenge for that is twofold - firstly there's generally a considerable start-up/investment cost, which has inherent risk, something that is exaggerated by all the other risks associated with Brexit! Secondly, UK's traditionally poor, confrontational approach to industrial relations need to change!

Typical downbeat negatives to all things British. I guess Mr Kings opinion is questionable against yours.

The lower pound creates an impetus for export that supports manufacturers that are not over reliant on imported materials. If the consumer bubble is liable to burst then government will need to do all it can to promote and support manufacturing and export. The alternative would be very grim and nothing to do with Brexit.

I dont know if you have any experience with British Industrial relations beyond reading the Guardian but it's not all the same as it was in the 1980's and there are a lot of highly trained graduate HR people around these days. My experience is that on the whole it's not bad at all and I am quite well qualified in that opinion.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Glad to see that the PM is going to get the cabinet into a brainstorming session to work out what Brexit actually is - now that she realises that saying Brexit means Brexit is meaningless unless Brexit is defined. And so dear PM remember the key principles of Brainstorming sessions. You need a facilitator - and it can't be you as the key stakeholder - it must be someone who understands the complexities of government and can manage an unruly and argumentative group - and so that must be the Foreign Secretary - he of huge brain and organisational skills. And remember no idea is dismissed out of hand as ridiculous - and that includes Brexit itself - they all get a Post-It on the wall and the opportunity to be discussed.

I look forward to seeing the outcome; our objectives for Brexit; and learn who is going to construct the roadmap to the door and how we come back through it once it has been shut behind us, if we in fact go through the door.

I think there's some direction regarding the brainstorming sessions in this exclusive news report

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/polit...with-idea-of-staying-in-europe-20160831113109

 

[Hacker Khan]

And as the phrase goes, no ..... sherlock http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37238641

 

[IanM]

I guess the BBC are still taking EU Cash and have to keep agitating for a second referendum. They are becoming embarrassing now