EU Referendum

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

TBH this latest discussion isn't really Brexit based. If there were any politicians anywhere in the country doing anything other than sticking their collective heads up each other's arses I believe these thoughts are miles off target.
Whilst it's infuriating I'm coming around to the idea that we have to let our poor old underpaid, overworked MPs do nothing for the next 6 months whilst the country goes to hell in a basket so they can come back, say "I told you so" every hour on the hour and cream in the profits from their share dealing when they get round to putting is back on the path to recovery.
BTW the council's are underfunded and don't have any money to do anthing more about looking for scroungers and it's never been in the Tories interest to do anything about tax evasion because, whilst they might be clean themselves, their friends and family are making a mint out of it. Ask Cameron...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

TBH this latest discussion isn't really Brexit based. If there were any politicians anywhere in the country doing anything other than sticking their collective heads up each other's arses I believe these thoughts are miles off target.
Whilst it's infuriating I'm coming around to the idea that we have to let our poor old underpaid, overworked MPs do nothing for the next 6 months whilst the country goes to hell in a basket so they can come back, say "I told you so" every hour on the hour and cream in the profits from their share dealing when they get round to putting is back on the path to recovery.
BTW the council's are underfunded and don't have any money to do anthing more about looking for scroungers and it's never been in the Tories interest to do anything about tax evasion because, whilst they might be clean themselves, their friends and family are making a mint out of it. Ask Cameron...

To me it is Brexit based because it comes back to the facts that both sides lied and blamed some of the issues on the weakest in society, now we are out we should be moving forward rather than stagnating and we need to be honest were our priorities are as we go forward and establish ourselves in the world markets, and that shouldn't be targetting the weakest.
It's not the Councils job to look for scroungers that the DWP's job and they are government funded.

 

[SocketRocket]

You use 6 words to dismiss the tax dodgers and the rest is the issues with the Welfare State, you're brushing over the biggest issue, the media and the people with the money are deflecting on to the poorest and the lowest in society, it's not about 2 wrongs, there are hundreds of wrong, but surely we should be tackling the biggest problems first, what would have the biggest impact on the economy if we were to sort these 2 issues out, the 1 1/2 Billion into the Treasury or 36 Billion.

I keep telling you its not 1.5 billion, it's way way more than that. You only refer to people fiddling the system, I am also referring to those who are milking it. I say again 'in a few words' Tax evasion is just as wrong. Also dont mix up genuine cases with the many more fiddlers.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I keep telling you its not 1.5 billion, it's way way more than that. You only refer to people fiddling the system, I am also referring to those who are milking it. I say again 'in a few words' Tax evasion is just as wrong. Also dont mix up genuine cases with the many more fiddlers.

And you keep going on about those "milking" it, what proof of that do you have? Is it 1% or 99% or are just guessing, facts are only 1.6 Billion is fraudently claimed, the rest is guess work and is not illegal.
More business's, MP's are milking the system imo.

 

[MegaSteve]

</script>>

There is a junior school next to my house and I am horrified at many of the parents that I see outside the gates, it is obvious that many dont work and probably never have.

Did you ever consider, in this no longer 9-5 world, that these are honest hard working folk going about their daily grind or did you just merely jump to the lazy conclusion that they are BIFs???

They might have already done their bit just about to go off and do their bit or as was the case whenever I collected the kids just got out of the pit having worked nights...

 

[SocketRocket]

</script>>


Did you ever consider, in this no longer 9-5 world, that these are honest hard working folk going about their daily grind or did you just merely jump to the lazy conclusion that they are BIFs???

They might have already done their bit just about to go off and do their bit or as was the case whenever I collected the kids just got out of the pit having worked nights...

These aren't that type of person. I think you are being a bit naive.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

These aren't that type of person. I think you are being a bit naive.

Wow, just Wow, I'm out.

 

[MegaSteve]

These aren't that type of person. I think you are being a bit naive.

And, I believe you are making of it what suits your political stance...

Its the smiling tanned face of a multi millionaire talking of 250M [to plug a hole he's left in a pension fund] as if it were just small change rattling around in his purse that see's my blood pressure rise obviously finding fault in ordinary folks lives is what does it for you...

Think I'd sooner stay in my little world thank you...

 

[PhilTheFragger]

I think that 1 benefit of the current political hiatus is that it gives everything a time to settle, nobody is making kneejerk reactions.
We will still be in the EU next year,

I have a funny feeling that in 10 years we will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about

 

[SocketRocket]

And, I believe you are making of it what suits your political stance...

Its the smiling tanned face of a multi millionaire talking of 250M [to plug a hole he's left in a pension fund] as if it were just small change rattling around in his purse that see's my blood pressure rise obviously finding fault in ordinary folks lives is what does it for you...

Think I'd sooner stay in my little world thank you...

I dont like anyone that takes advantage of others and that applies right across the scale. Lets make that one clear rather than anyone suggesting I'm Ok with the rich shirking their responsibilities.

Anyone who thinks there are not a lot of people in this country shirking work and ripping off taxpayers is in my opinion naive or blinkered. Our society also promotes fecklessness and has too many welfare benefits that suppress wages and encourage people to live out a life in the underclass. I have a feeling these things will need facing up to soon.

'Ordinary folk' as you call them are what we called Working Class, people that went out and worked hard in whatever job they could so they could care for their families and have some pride in themselves. To consider the people I mentioned as Ordinary Folk does the working class a dishonour.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I dont like anyone that takes advantage of others and that applies right across the scale. Lets make that one clear rather than anyone suggesting I'm Ok with the rich shirking their responsibilities.

Anyone who thinks there are not a lot of people in this country shirking work and ripping off taxpayers is in my opinion naive or blinkered. Our society also promotes fecklessness and has too many welfare benefits that suppress wages and encourage people to live out a life in the underclass. I have a feeling these things will need facing up to soon.

'Ordinary folk' as you call them are what we called Working Class, people that went out and worked hard in whatever job they could so they could care for their families and have some pride in themselves. To consider the people I mentioned as Ordinary Folk does the working class a dishonour.

Ironic highlighted 1st sentence coming from someone so passionate about the leave campaign. As that was basically one long exercise in a lot of people fears being stoked and then taken advantage of by a few politicians to advance their personal political ambitions. IMHO of course.

 

[drdel]

Putting aside the 'Tax' argument what I'm interested in is why those who want to re-run the referendum until a favourable 'In' result is gained think the EU's future holds.

Italy is fast reaching basket case status with the lowest productivity and unsustainable economy.
Greece is still a big problem which has not been solved and will require further ECB and IMF support which may or may not happen
Germany is fast becoming fed up with been the payer and Merkel faces election troubles and with the UK's net contribution vanishing it will have to pick up the majority of the funds the EU needs for itself and the subsidised states.
France is over leveraged and following Italy
Spain is on an economic tightrope with the highest levels of unemployment, almost twice the average of 10+% in the EU
The Eastern bloc and the southern states need subsidising.
Juncker seems to be acting like he's the brother of Seb Blatter and the Brussels budget is out of control
The IMF has declared having serious concerns over the economic state of the EU and ECB's ability to sustain its Quantitative Easy strategy.
The majority of EU banks are exposed as being insufficiently capitalised.
The EU wants budgetary stability for the euro but has no monetary control over individual states.

Yet...
The UK banks have satisfied the stress tests.
UK businesses already export beyond the EU: EU nations will still buy as the £ exchange is good for them
British can and already do travel worldwide without much hassle; most countries issue a visa with little problem.


So as the 6th largest economy we can more than survive - do you really think that the UK could possibly be advised to join such a potential unstable economic scenario?

 

[Hacker Khan]

Putting aside the 'Tax' argument what I'm interested in is why those who want to re-run the referendum until a favourable 'In' result is gained think the EU's future holds.

Italy is fast reaching basket case status with the lowest productivity and unsustainable economy.
Greece is still a big problem which has not been solved and will require further ECB and IMF support which may or may not happen
Germany is fast becoming fed up with been the payer and Merkel faces election troubles and with the UK's net contribution vanishing it will have to pick up the majority of the funds the EU needs for itself and the subsidised states.
France is over leveraged and following Italy
Spain is on an economic tightrope with the highest levels of unemployment, almost twice the average of 10+% in the EU
The Eastern bloc and the southern states need subsidising.
Juncker seems to be acting like he's the brother of Seb Blatter and the Brussels budget is out of control
The IMF has declared having serious concerns over the economic state of the EU and ECB's ability to sustain its Quantitative Easy strategy.
The majority of EU banks are exposed as being insufficiently capitalised.
The EU wants budgetary stability for the euro but has no monetary control over individual states.

Yet...
The UK banks have satisfied the stress tests.
UK businesses already export beyond the EU: EU nations will still buy as the £ exchange is good for them
British can and already do travel worldwide without much hassle; most countries issue a visa with little problem.


So as the 6th largest economy we can more than survive - do you really think that the UK could possibly be advised to join such a potential unstable economic scenario?

Simple answer is that just about every independent and credible economic organisation said that it is the UKs best interests to stay in. And using 'stability' as an argument to come out is not probably the best reasoning, the way our political and economic outlook is at the moment.

 

[drdel]

So HK you do not think the IMF economists are right to identify the high level of risk in the EU.

As an economist I personally disagreed with the "independent and credible economic organisation(s).." those you mention were in the main concerned about the short term impact. But as Carney has stated the BoE has sufficient capability to sustain the emotional over reaction. Osborne has already started to refocus the UK's strategy. The emerging growth economies are not in the EU but in Asia, India, South America these countries should be the focus of our trade agreements. You will have noted that the EU's attempt to do a trade deal with Canada has hit the buffers because the 27 claim Juncker acted without authority, so potential trading partners now know they must deal with Brussels who then have to get 27 national governments to agree. This lack of trading agility will continue to hamper the EU nations when globalisation is increasing competition.

If you want the UK to be hidden in a lumbering incoherent group then that is the future inside the EU where the pace of our growth will be dictated by the slowest player on the EU. I guess you'd be happy to continue to pump money down the EU drain for as long as it takes and risk exposure to the EU's Banks and the Brussel's budget demands rather than invest that money in the UK

 

[Hobbit]

So HK you do not think the IMF economists are right to identify the high level of risk in the EU.

As an economist I personally disagreed with the "independent and credible economic organisation(s).." those you mention were in the main concerned about the short term impact. But as Carney has stated the BoE has sufficient capability to sustain the emotional over reaction. Osborne has already started to refocus the UK's strategy. The emerging growth economies are not in the EU but in Asia, India, South America these countries should be the focus of our trade agreements. You will have noted that the EU's attempt to do a trade deal with Canada has hit the buffers because the 27 claim Juncker acted without authority, so potential trading partners now know they must deal with Brussels who then have to get 27 national governments to agree. This lack of trading agility will continue to hamper the EU nations when globalisation is increasing competition.

If you want the UK to be hidden in a lumbering incoherent group then that is the future inside the EU where the pace of our growth will be dictated by the slowest player on the EU. I guess you'd be happy to continue to pump money down the EU drain for as long as it takes and risk exposure to the EU's Banks and the Brussel's budget demands rather than invest that money in the UK

Careful! You aren't supposed to come in here arguing rationally... and there's a danger you could be lableled an economic racist.

I disagree with your point about being lumbered with the slowest player. In effect, the argument would suggest that by the richer, not rich, countries supporting the poorest all countries will jog along at the same pace. This does suggest that if you are efficient, you will be handicapped in the race with economies outside the EU by having some of your investment capital taken off you and distributed elsewhere.

 

[drdel]

Careful! You aren't supposed to come in here arguing rationally... and there's a danger you could be lableled an economic racist.

I disagree with your point about being lumbered with the slowest player. In effect, the argument would suggest that by the richer, not rich, countries supporting the poorest all countries will jog along at the same pace. This does suggest that if you are efficient, you will be handicapped in the race with economies outside the EU by having some of your investment capital taken off you and distributed elsewhere.

Sorry Hobbit, - rush of blood to the head - Monday enthusiasm; I'll not let anymore rational thoughts happen this week!:whoo:

 

[vkurup]

So soap manufacturer Lush is moving some production from Poole to Germany because Poole voted 'Leave' and the owner thinks that the referendum result had signalled to staff from overseas that they were “not wanted by people in Poole”...

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...__we_ll_grow_our_business_in_Germany_instead/

I am guessing that most people on this forum do not frequent Lush, so this might not be newsworthy..

 

[Rooter]

So soap manufacturer Lush is moving some production from Poole to Germany because Poole voted 'Leave' and the owner thinks that the referendum result had signalled to staff from overseas that they were “not wanted by people in Poole”...

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...__we_ll_grow_our_business_in_Germany_instead/

I am guessing that most people on this forum do not frequent Lush, so this might not be newsworthy..

What absolute local journalism tosh at its finest. He had already opened a new facility in Germany way before the ref! This is one reason why i hate local papers..

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Also a nice excuse for him to explain why he is expanding in Germany, not the UK. It states that 1/3 of his workforce in Poole do not have British citizenship. Presumably this means they are minimum wage workers, it usually does. Great employer.

 

[Hobbit]

So soap manufacturer Lush is moving some production from Poole to Germany because Poole voted 'Leave' and the owner thinks that the referendum result had signalled to staff from overseas that they were “not wanted by people in Poole”...

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne...__we_ll_grow_our_business_in_Germany_instead/

I am guessing that most people on this forum do not frequent Lush, so this might not be newsworthy..

What absolute local journalism tosh at its finest. He had already opened a new facility in Germany way before the ref! This is one reason why i hate local papers..

A number of manufacturers having been moving their business to eastern Europe since 2004. Its in the EU and the labour price is way way cheaper.