EU Referendum

[TheDiablo]

50% of the voting population are below 45 yrs old.

"Irreversible damage to the environment..." get a grip. Go and talk to the Chinese, the Indians or the US if you have a problem with the environment. Social mobility, cheap housing... maybe if you were a baby boomer you'd know what it was like. Hardly a car in the road, yet so many have two now. A week in a caravan, and now its two weeks in Spain or Florida. A rented TV, and now its 2 or 3 including what can be found in the kids room.

I've watched docks gates open and most coming out on bikes. I've seen 12 buses lined up at ICI gates, the same at British Steel. And I remember when the working week was 48 hours and then the required overtime, not optional. Easy life...you haven't a clue. And that pension some of them have they've worked damned hard for.

I might not agree with the OUT vote but I respect it, and the democracy that is behind it. There's been lots of talk of racism, but it appears ageism is ok.

Of course the environment is a global issue. But just because someone else does something worse, does that exonerate you from blame? We were an awful polluter between 1960 and 1990, significantly contributing to the global crisis. Deny Science all you want, or again deflect blame elsewhere.

Rather than disagree with any of my other points, you've just made excuses for them. At no point did I claim boomers had an easy life, but that doesn't give them the right to rob future generations of the same opportunities in mobility, housing, pensions, care, education or bankrupt the country in the way they did.

You're saying 'Look what we've done for you, youve got a big TV, a car and a trip to Spain'. Thanks, but I think we'd rather take free education, a safe public pension, minimal national debt and access to cheap housing (which we can sell on for huge financial gain) that was afforded to the boomers - even if we did have to work 48 hours (oh wait, many of us do). Instead, we have £50,000 debt at 21 years old, no hope of a public pension, a scary national debt and an inaccessible housing market (but thanks for the Spanish holiday when you had to endure a caravan)

And I trust the ageist comment isn't levelled at me, but I accept it's definitely been a general theme today which is a shame. I despair the reasons many of them voted leave which were in my opinion selfish, but I'm not trying to deny them a right to vote or devalue it below mine. I respect the result and am a firm believer in democracy but that doesn't mean I cant have a good old fashioned moan at the outcome!

 

[Old Skier]

Better "the tyranny of the majority" than being subject to the wishes and wants of the minority, whatever their age and that from a disappointed Remainer who is concerned for his grandchildren.

Democracy may not be perfect but it sure beats any alternative we have ever seen.

Gives the impression that democracy doesn't appear to be taught in our schools anymore.

I do find it strange that all these figures are coming out when no age survey or exit poll was carried out but if we are to believe the figures it appears that more of the youth failed to get out of the pub in time to vote.

If the older generation are to be known of the boomers are this young generations to be known as the wanters.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

This is all very much your opinion

...and mine.

 

[Old Skier]

...and mine.

Which drives it closer to the non fact end of the scale, best publish it wings to make it so.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

God you can be such a weary Willie. [or choosing to constantly ignore facts]
ONE bloomin click on Google. OK

 

[SocketRocket]

Which specific points do you disagree with?

Damage to the environment?
Taking advantage of cheap housing to the detriment of current social housing stock
Free education being removed?
Golden pensions disappearing?
Bankrupting the country?

All of them. You appear to have a xenophobic and narrow minded opinion towards your elders. Do you hold the same opinion with your parents.

You seem to have no understanding of how hard life was for the vast majority of people growing up after WW2. Most of us had next to nothing and our parents struggled to put a meal on the table. When you consider wages in the 1950's/60's/70's/80's people couldn't dream of the luxuries you take for granted today, life was frugal and simple, there were no benefits to help you out, it was work your bits off or get nothing. When I see the lifestyles of young people today most of us would not even dream of those achievements. University Education was something most would not even consider as we needed to get out to work to subsidise the pittance our parents lived on. Great numbers of people lived in slum rented accommodation as children as their family houses had been destroyed by bombing during the war. You could only dream that a Council House would become available to improve your life.

I got on the housing ladder by working 60 hours a week including shifts, Building Societies would not consider you for a mortgage unless you had saved regularly with them for a number of years.

You just don't have a clue when you make those uneducated remarks. I don't deny you your nice lifestyle as a young person but don't blame my generation for the ills of the world o r having an opinion based on our life experiences.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Fair comment I feel

 

[TheDiablo]

Before entering into a rant like that you really should check your facts.

The baby-boomers suffered an austere childhood in the fifties, rampant inflation in the seventies, interest rates of 15% on mortgages in the late eighties and the vast majority did not benefit from final salary pensions.

But if your pre-conceived ideas make you feel better about yourself , fine!

#Remainvoter

So which facts are you disputing? Nothing you've said challenges the points I made, merely deflects it and makes excuses. So in response to your points...

Wage growth was high in the 70s
House prices were comparably so much lower in the 80s than today that even with high interest rates the % of income on housing was far lower
Triple locked pensions - I shouldn't need to go further than that!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Of course the environment is a global issue. But just because someone else does something worse, does that exonerate you from blame? We were an awful polluter between 1960 and 1990, significantly contributing to the global crisis. Deny Science all you want, or again deflect blame elsewhere.

Rather than disagree with any of my other points, you've just made excuses for them. At no point did I claim boomers had an easy life, but that doesn't give them the right to rob future generations of the same opportunities in mobility, housing, pensions, care, education or bankrupt the country in the way they did.

You're saying 'Look what we've done for you, youve got a big TV, a car and a trip to Spain'. Thanks, but I think we'd rather take free education, a safe public pension, minimal national debt and access to cheap housing (which we can sell on for huge financial gain) that was afforded to the boomers - even if we did have to work 48 hours (oh wait, many of us do). Instead, we have £50,000 debt at 21 years old, no hope of a public pension, a scary national debt and an inaccessible housing market (but thanks for the Spanish holiday when you had to endure a caravan)

And I trust the ageist comment isn't levelled at me, but I accept it's definitely been a general theme today which is a shame. I despair the reasons many of them voted leave which were in my opinion selfish, but I'm not trying to deny them a right to vote or devalue it below mine. I respect the result and am a firm believer in democracy but that doesn't mean I cant have a good old fashioned moan at the outcome!

By all means have a moan but the above is probably the biggest load of twaddle I have read throughout this debate.

If you are working 48 hours a week I am surprised you have time for golf or posting on forums. £50,000 debt at 21? Yet more are going into higher education.

Public or State sector pensions never have been sustainable at the levels promised.Just look at how much of your local council's expenditure is on pensions.

Cheap housing? In 1973 I bought a small semi in the South West for £9600, six times my salary. So whilst it was cheaper than today's prices in relative terms not that much cheaper. And by the way prices were even then significantly higher in the London region, one of the reasons why my then employer was relocating from the City to Bristol.

I suggest you stop looking for a reason why you did not get your own way and blaming everything upon your parents and their generation.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Which specific points do you disagree with?

Damage to the environment?
How is this the fault of the boomer generation? Current policies are very much biased towards being green

Taking advantage of cheap housing to the detriment of current social housing stock
No idea what you are referring to. This is a small overcrowded island, housing is always going to be at a premium.

Free education being removed?
I assume you mean university places? They certainly weren't free when I left school, only the priviliged got to go in 'my day'. Free/cheap university places were introduced then taken away again so your argument falls down on that one.

Golden pensions disappearing?
Assume you mean final salary pensions? They have to be sustainable and because of the drain on resources (ie increased welfare benefits costs) they aren't. Part of the issue is increased costs to house immigrants and provide an NHS for them that they haven't contributed to.

Bankrupting the country?
That has been going on for generations, not something you can put down to one generation

Your last point reminded me of a brilliant quote by the head of Aston Martin this morning. He stated they would have to increase productivity and work more efficiently to compete in Europe. Well no **** Sherlock!!!! It just summed up a British 'that will do' attitude.

 

[harpo_72]

I said at the beginning that those on the road to retirement should not be allowed to vote. Perhaps I should have said that this was a decision that would affect for 20years ... But I upset a lot of people. Now the stats suggest that the older generation has influx this decision.
I did look across at the 64 yr old work colleague who voted leave and he tried to justify his position. He kept saying interest rates are still low. His son rang him up and gave him an ear full. I just said I think you're pension pot has just gone through the floor, looks like another 10years service for you.
So really all was very short sighted... Let's just watch the investment and exchange rates. They are a true measure of the situation.
Cameron was right to go, I don't blame him in his efforts to disentangle himself from a farcical situation. Step up Boris, let's put you in the history books for causing mass recession, people dying in hospitals and a generation of homelessness

 

[vkurup]

Went to the Barbers and he mentioned he had customers who voted Leave for a laugh as they thought it will never happen. I thought he was having a laugh. I spoke to a friend after lunch and she was distraught. Apparently she voted Leave because she thought it would never win and we will send EU a strong message. Now she can't believe or accept that Leave won. Her business is going to be hit as they export to EU

What planet do these people come from? Don't they know how a referendum works? These people deserve the results. Dear world, I am ashamed of my friend and the consequences of her actions. She did not 'mean it'.

 

[harpo_72]

Yes I have a lot of that from leave voters .... Really stupid

 

[Doon frae Troon]

A disgrace that the 16/17 year olds were not allowed to vote in this referendum.

I asked my 10 year old grandson what he thought of the result..........his reply 'Dumb, dumb and dumber, we don't even get a chance to re-join'

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I said at the beginning that those on the road to retirement should not be allowed to vote. Perhaps I should have said that this was a decision that would affect for 20years ... But I upset a lot of people. Now the stats suggest that the older generation has influx this decision.
I did look across at the 64 yr old work colleague who voted leave and he tried to justify his position. He kept saying interest rates are still low. His son rang him up and gave him an ear full. I just said I think you're pension pot has just gone through the floor, looks like another 10years service for you.
So really all was very short sighted... Let's just watch the investment and exchange rates. They are a true measure of the situation.
Cameron was right to go, I don't blame him in his efforts to disentangle himself from a farcical situation. Step up Boris, let's put you in the history books for causing mass recession, people dying in hospitals and a generation of homelessness

Nice sentiments, shame they are not based on facts. So the markets and currencies may tumble short term but they will bounce back. People dying in hospitals......surely not?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

On the bright side .........UKIP NO MORE.:lol:

 

[harpo_72]

have you 20 years left or more?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

I said at the beginning that those on the road to retirement should not be allowed to vote. Perhaps I should have said that this was a decision that would affect for 20years ... But I upset a lot of people. Now the stats suggest that the older generation has influx this decision.
I did look across at the 64 yr old work colleague who voted leave and he tried to justify his position. He kept saying interest rates are still low. His son rang him up and gave him an ear full. I just said I think you're pension pot has just gone through the floor, looks like another 10years service for you.
So really all was very short sighted... Let's just watch the investment and exchange rates. They are a true measure of the situation.
Cameron was right to go, I don't blame him in his efforts to disentangle himself from a farcical situation. Step up Boris, let's put you in the history books for causing mass recession, people dying in hospitals and a generation of homelessness

It was him that started this "farcical situation", no sympathy for him. He's created this next step into the unknown, but one things for sure he won't have to go the food bank to feed his kids.

 

[SteveJay]

Better "the tyranny of the majority" than being subject to the wishes and wants of the minority, whatever their age and that from a disappointed Remainer who is concerned for his grandchildren.

Democracy may not be perfect but it sure beats any alternative we have ever seen.

Absolutely, what do these kids think would be better, maybe ban over 65's from voting or give *kids* two votes......its a bloody democracy we live in. If you don't like it then you now have a clear choice - go.

 

[harpo_72]

It was him that started this "farcical situation", no sympathy for him. He's created this next step into the unknown, but one things for sure he won't have to go the food bank to feed his kids.

I was being kind ... He was pretty silly letting the public vote. Especially since they voted him in!! Now he is trying not to have his name smeared with this disaster. Don't worry I won't forget.