EU Referendum

[Ross61]

The FT have published an article with research that states those regions of the UK that are most dependent on EU Trade were some of the heaviest leave voters.

If the EU play hardball on trade negotiations and their local economy and trade tanks as a result of their short sightedness they will inevitably look to London for a handout. Good luck getting that from an unelected Tory govt they've just helped put in charge!

The Tory government were elected. The PM will change but the government are the same.

 

[TheDiablo]

Maybe the Remain campaign should have concentrated on the positive benefits of being in the EU, rather than the negative scare stories about the effect of leaving it (which unfortunately are now coming true)! :mmm:

Completely agree, a terrible campaign by all associated with it. It was like they got advice from Arsenal on how to blow a lead and get out of Europe!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

So which facts are you disputing? Nothing you've said challenges the points I made, merely deflects it and makes excuses. So in response to your points...

Wage growth was high in the 70s
House prices were comparably so much lower in the 80s than today that even with high interest rates the % of income on housing was far lower
Triple locked pensions - I shouldn't need to go further than that!

What are these triple locked pensions?

I am afraid that as a retired Private Sector employee I and the vast majority of others have no experience of such things unlike yourself in the State sector.

Wage growth in the 70's did not for most keep pace with inflation and whilst housing costs were lower in real terms they were not that much lower.

Blaming the boomers is a convenient excuse for those of your generation who had never experienced any hardship until the sadly necessary austerity programme that has followed the global financial crisis in 2008.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Completely agree, a terrible campaign by all associated with it. It was like they got advice from Arsenal on how to blow a lead and get out of Europe!

Well those of us in the Remain campaign received no advice or help from the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

 

[harpo_72]

A bit like the rest of us then. What makes you the special one.

I didn't vote out .... I know what side my bread is buttered thank you.

 

[TheDiablo]

The Tory government were elected. The PM will change but the government are the same.

Im a Tory voter, but I certainly didn't vote for Boris Johnson to be PM with Gove and Grayling at the top table. Nor will they continue with the Dave and George manifesto on which the party was elected.

FWIW, I fully expect an election within the year. With one of the cornerstones of their campaign to leave being that much of the powers at the EU are unelected, they'll be under severe pressure to ensure they're 'elected'. And with Labour still so far behind and in disarray there's almost no risk associated with it.

 

[delc]

Completely agree, a terrible campaign by all associated with it. It was like they got advice from Arsenal on how to blow a lead and get out of Europe!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[TheDiablo]

Well those of us in the Remain campaign received no advice or help from the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

Again, completely agree. Corbyn was a disgrace in his inept leadership and comments, and Cameron was far too negative. My post clearly stated 'all associated with it'

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Again, completely agree. Corbyn was a disgrace in his inept leadership and comments, and Cameron was far too negative. My post clearly stated 'all associated with it'

The only difference between them was that we, at least, all knew on which of the two sides Cameron lay. I was amazed by the number of Labour supporters I encountered who thought the party line was in favour of Leave.

 

[Ross61]

You clearly didn't live in those times. Wage growrh was only high because we had rampant inflation, often around 12% p/a, believe me we weren't any better off. We didn't have the luxuries you take for granted, phones, computers, cars etc etc. My first mortgage in 1975 took 80% of my total take home pay and that mortgage was often around 12%. We didn't have spare money or holidays abroad, or in fact most of the luxuries of life you now enjoy.

Triple licked pensions are a product of the last few years and we're having to wait longer than ever promised to get that pension.

You clearly haven't got a clue how much more difficult life was back in the 60's to the 2000's than it is today!

i agree totally.
The young of today are obviously scared about the future just the same as we were years ago.
In the mid-late 80's I was newly married with 2 babies/toddlers.i had a small house with a mortgage that the interest rate went up by whole percentage points several times a year and even on the same day! The Tory govt believed by hiking up the interest rates curbed spending. Yes the govt controlled interest rates pre 1997!
I had no luxuries my only TV was a small portable I bought when I was 21.
I had no holidays, clothes had to last. I had do do all my own maintenance on my old banger of a car. Going out living it up and getting blind drunk was not a good idea financially.
I paid my mortgage and muddled through.
we lived in a boom and bust economical cycle for years. Always the poorest got hit the most, although I count myself lucky to have been fully employed throughout.

I was scared of my future, but things are never as bad as they seem. We got used to the turmoil of the 80s and therefore not so scared now of the latest turmoil.

I believe we will come through this ok and be thankful we got out of the hole the EU are digging. When things are not right in the hole you have dug.. STOP DIGGING!!!!

 

[harpo_72]

Im a Tory voter, but I certainly didn't vote for Boris Johnson to be PM with Gove and Grayling at the top table. Nor will they continue with the Dave and George manifesto on which the party was elected.

FWIW, I fully expect an election within the year. With one of the cornerstones of their campaign to leave being that much of the powers at the EU are unelected, they'll be under severe pressure to ensure they're 'elected'. And with Labour still so far behind and in disarray there's almost no risk associated with it.

I was talking to my parents about this ... It's quite early in this term for an election. Is it not a worry that UKIP will rise?

 

[Ross61]

Im a Tory voter, but I certainly didn't vote for Boris Johnson to be PM with Gove and Grayling at the top table. Nor will they continue with the Dave and George manifesto on which the party was elected.

FWIW, I fully expect an election within the year. With one of the cornerstones of their campaign to leave being that much of the powers at the EU are unelected, they'll be under severe pressure to ensure they're 'elected'. And with Labour still so far behind and in disarray there's almost no risk associated with it.

So you voted for a party that a cornerstone of their manifesto was a guaranteed EU referendum. How do you feel about causing today's situation?

 

[Ross61]

I was talking to my parents about this ... It's quite early in this term for an election. Is it not a worry that UKIP will rise?

I can't see UKIP reaching anywhere close to the support they had. Why would anyone vote for a party that want out of Europe as virtually only policy when we already are?

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Completely agree, a terrible campaign by all associated with it. It was like they got advice from Arsenal on how to blow a lead and get out of Europe!

Thread winner :whoo: :whoo:

 

[harpo_72]

i agree totally.
The young of today are obviously scared about the future just the same as we were years ago.
In the mid-late 80's I was newly married with 2 babies/toddlers.i had a small house with a mortgage that the interest rate went up by whole percentage points several times a year and even on the same day! The Tory govt believed by hiking up the interest rates curbed spending. Yes the govt controlled interest rates pre 1997!
I had no luxuries my only TV was a small portable I bought when I was 21.
I had no holidays, clothes had to last. I had do do all my own maintenance on my old banger of a car. Going out living it up and getting blind drunk was not a good idea financially.
I paid my mortgage and muddled through.
we lived in a boom and bust economical cycle for years. Always the poorest got hit the most, although I count myself lucky to have been fully employed throughout.

I was scared of my future, but things are never as bad as they seem. We got used to the turmoil of the 80s and therefore not so scared now of the latest turmoil.

I believe we will come through this ok and be thankful we got out of the hole the EU are digging. When things are not right in the hole you have dug.. STOP DIGGING!!!!

so are you saying that moving to the Bank of England controlling the interest rates was better than some Tory politician?
We opted out of monetary union and the Bank of England has been still in control... Not sure what your issues are?
I was there in the 80s as well, yes we have had it good since but that was under labour government. Then the Tories came back and we have had some dire economic policies ... And don't start up about the recession caused by labour, I think you will find that was the banks selling bad debts and refusing to foot the bill.

 

[TheDiablo]

So you voted for a party that a cornerstone of their manifesto was a guaranteed EU referendum. How do you feel about causing today's situation?

Absolutely fine thanks. I believe the previous govt delivered an exceptional economic performance in the circumstance they inherited, and trusted them to continue that recovery (which to date they had). They then delivered on a promise in their manifesto and campaigned to remain in Europe (albeit badly)

Only if Cameron and Osborne had turned and promoted leave would I feel betrayed by them.

My vote in the GE certainly didn't 'cause' us to leave the EU!!!

 

[fundy]

for those of you blaming the older ones for ruining it for the younger ones, could you tell me what proportion of 18-25 year olds voted?

 

[Ross61]

so are you saying that moving to the Bank of England controlling the interest rates was better than some Tory politician?
We opted out of monetary union and the Bank of England has been still in control... Not sure what your issues are?
I was there in the 80s as well, yes we have had it good since but that was under labour government. Then the Tories came back and we have had some dire economic policies ... And don't start up about the recession caused by labour, I think you will find that was the banks selling bad debts and refusing to foot the bill.

Sorry, perhaps you misunderstood my point. I was against interest rates being controlled by govts. They just put up rates by knee jerk reactions. I am a Labour voter and 1997 was a great year. BoE got the job of controlling rates and minimum wage was implemented, a policy that tories were vehemently opposed to, predicticting doom and gloom for businesses and jobs.

 

[Paperboy]

for those of you blaming the older ones for ruining it for the younger ones, could you tell me what proportion of 18-25 year olds voted?

Think they where below the national average turn out.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

so are you saying that moving to the Bank of England controlling the interest rates was better than some Tory politician?
We opted out of monetary union and the Bank of England has been still in control... Not sure what your issues are?
I was there in the 80s as well, yes we have had it good since but that was under labour government. Then the Tories came back and we have had some dire economic policies ... And don't start up about the recession caused by labour, I think you will find that was the banks selling bad debts and refusing to foot the bill.

So Labour's tax & spend (and borrow) policies had nothing to do with it. Certainly the banks were complicit but the Blair/Brown Governments did nothing to control those institutions.

Indeed they accelerated the policies of de-regulation begun by the previous Conservative regime.

Post 2010 our economic performance has bettered that of many of our competitors largely as a result of facing up to reality.