User20205
Money List Winner
what do you mean? care to expand?
EU Referendum
- Thread starter Doon frae Troon
- Start date
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
The "X" % of people who will be voting simply because they like Boris/Cameron/whoever...and not on what actually may or may not happen....
And Piers Morgan of course......
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Please no
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Suggest you watch this where a professor who has studied this very subject for 20 years can tell you.
[video=youtube_share;USTypBKEd8Y]https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y[/video]
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Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
And here's what he said about immigration from the perspective of someone who has studied the EU for 20 years and knows the legal side of it inside out.
– a significant majority of the foreign nationals living in the UK (2/3 at the last national census), and over half the net immigration each year, come from outside the EU. That is almost entirely within our own domestic competence and power – we seem to be good at immigration, without needing any help from the EU.
– as regards those EU nationals who come to the UK: it is completely dishonest of prominent Leave campaigners repeatedly to claim that there is some sort of unconditional right to move to and settle in another Member State. We all have a right to circulate – that is the basis on which, e.g. we go on holiday to Spain and France. But when it comes to settling in another country, there are three main categories of right under EU law: for the economically active (ie in work and paying taxes); for students (eg enrolled at university and thus paying tuition fees); and for those wealthy enough to look after themselves and their families without relying on public benefits. There is no right to “benefit tourism†under EU law.
– Against that background, it is unsurprising to find that – according to all the objective social science research – EU migrants are significantly more likely to be younger, better qualified and economically active; they pay far more into the country in work and taxes than they take out in public benefits or services.
– When it comes to the particular situation of Eastern European migrants, we are rarely reminded of the fact that the UK was one of only three Member States (the others being Ireland and Sweden) that chose not to impose transitional restrictions on the rights to free movement of new EU citizens during the “Big Bang†enlargement of 2004. We chose to let these people come here as we did; no one forced us to and we could have decided otherwise. Small wonder that many other Europeans regard the UK debate as rather hypocritical.
– And nor should we forget that free movement is a two way street. Massive numbers of UK nationals travel for pleasure, study and work around the EU – taking advantage of all the benefits and convenience and protection EU law offers. Around 2 million UK nationals have also settled in other Member States – and the objective social science research suggests that those migrants are more likely to be economically inactive, ie they are not actively contributing through work and taxes to their host society. Again – small wonder other Europeans think there is a real double standard at work in the UK debate.
– It is also worth recalling that the accession of future Member States requires the unanimous agreement of the 28 governments plus their national ratification processes. The only large applicant is Turkey – and there is no realistic prospect of Turkey joining the EU within any of our lifetimes – not least since several countries have indicated that they would hold national referenda on any Turkish deal, obviously in the expectation that their populations would overwhelmingly reject it.â€
– a significant majority of the foreign nationals living in the UK (2/3 at the last national census), and over half the net immigration each year, come from outside the EU. That is almost entirely within our own domestic competence and power – we seem to be good at immigration, without needing any help from the EU.
– as regards those EU nationals who come to the UK: it is completely dishonest of prominent Leave campaigners repeatedly to claim that there is some sort of unconditional right to move to and settle in another Member State. We all have a right to circulate – that is the basis on which, e.g. we go on holiday to Spain and France. But when it comes to settling in another country, there are three main categories of right under EU law: for the economically active (ie in work and paying taxes); for students (eg enrolled at university and thus paying tuition fees); and for those wealthy enough to look after themselves and their families without relying on public benefits. There is no right to “benefit tourism†under EU law.
– Against that background, it is unsurprising to find that – according to all the objective social science research – EU migrants are significantly more likely to be younger, better qualified and economically active; they pay far more into the country in work and taxes than they take out in public benefits or services.
– When it comes to the particular situation of Eastern European migrants, we are rarely reminded of the fact that the UK was one of only three Member States (the others being Ireland and Sweden) that chose not to impose transitional restrictions on the rights to free movement of new EU citizens during the “Big Bang†enlargement of 2004. We chose to let these people come here as we did; no one forced us to and we could have decided otherwise. Small wonder that many other Europeans regard the UK debate as rather hypocritical.
– And nor should we forget that free movement is a two way street. Massive numbers of UK nationals travel for pleasure, study and work around the EU – taking advantage of all the benefits and convenience and protection EU law offers. Around 2 million UK nationals have also settled in other Member States – and the objective social science research suggests that those migrants are more likely to be economically inactive, ie they are not actively contributing through work and taxes to their host society. Again – small wonder other Europeans think there is a real double standard at work in the UK debate.
– It is also worth recalling that the accession of future Member States requires the unanimous agreement of the 28 governments plus their national ratification processes. The only large applicant is Turkey – and there is no realistic prospect of Turkey joining the EU within any of our lifetimes – not least since several countries have indicated that they would hold national referenda on any Turkish deal, obviously in the expectation that their populations would overwhelmingly reject it.â€
User20205
Money List Winner
User20205
Money List Winner
this is the one I referred to. Anyone who is 'out' watch this and counter his points.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Thanks to HK for putting it up, my wife is an undecided and when she gets back from work I will suggest she has a watch however she wasn't very happy when the Mayor of London implied that Out voters were nothing more than racists.
Obviously as a long term out voter it had very little influence on me but I did find it interesting all be it more biased as the lecture went on (my view, others may not agree). I also worry when academics and public sector workers accept reports with only a satisfactory rating. Since leaving the forces I have been involved where reports like this have been done and a mark of satisfactory was a polite way of saying poor without upsetting those being reported on, (once again I state that this is only my opinion) if others are happy with satisfactory then so be it.
I also found his remarks on the Scottish referendum (he may have made it before the interview between the leader of the SNP and the BBC) and the Irish boarder at best badly informed.
sawtooth
Tour Winner
Very convincing stuff from the remain camp, it does make you wonder sometimes how on earth did me manage on our own for so long without "help" from the EU.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
I was referring to the legislation that states that if the EU Parliament makes any significant changes in the future, further referendums would be triggered. Another one of Parliaments triple locks, and we all know how easily they are unlocked.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Irrespective of the result should the UK now consider a new system of government.
It is pretty obvious that the existing one is not fit for purpose.
As an example, two to three times as many liberal Lords than MPs.
It is pretty obvious that the existing one is not fit for purpose.
As an example, two to three times as many liberal Lords than MPs.
U
User62651
Guest
Let's have a referendum on it......they're such fun!
User20205
Money List Winner
we've never been one our own, the wealth of this country was built on the commonwealth, which is a de-facto trading block.
We've certainly never been on our own in a globalized modern world.
Thank God the whole thing will be over tomorrow! 🙄
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Let's have a referendum on it......they're such fun!
The separatists are dead against 'un-elected politicians' having a say so if they win I expect them to abolish the HoL toot sweet.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
The wealth of the UK was built on the slave/tobacco/sugar trade and pillaging the Commonwealth countries.
User20205
Money List Winner
but those are 'our' un-elected mob though Doon.....not some dastardly Frenchies up to no good
User20205
Money List Winner
de facto trading block, where we held a degree of influence
we have never been isolationist
When Boris Johnson says "Take back control", what he actually means is that he wants to take control! 🙄
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Old Skier
Tour Winner
As you have proven in the past to be the biggest separatist on the GM Forum , that's a relief. When's the wake.
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