EU Referendum

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

But my son aside - absolute gob-smacking to hear many Brexiteers complaining about the extension to the deadline to register to vote. Quite staggering that they want to deny the vote to people who have a right to vote and want to vote - and missed it for whatever reason. Surely it is so much more important to get the greatest number of folk possible voting as that simply strengthens the mandate for the result - whatever it is.

 

[NWJocko]

It's 37.5 hours a week he is expected to work at Tesco for his £57.

And he has no choice - I don't know the agreement he has with his work Coach and what he signed up to in his Claimant Commitment, and if that is 6 jobs a day (maybe on average) then that is what he has been doing. In wrong area - Sheffield? Possibly. But if he is going to get his business back up and running and getting himself off the dole then his best chance is with him staying in Sheffield.

And I might say that I would expect the taxpayer to fund him £57 a week - because I am a taxpayer and claiming nothing and fortunately have never had to. But I expect a bit of humanity, consideration and respect to be shown to someone who has got himself a degree (and racked up the debts); has tried to start up a business of his own, and who has shown real commitment to getting a job.

And why his girlfriend has had HER JSA stopped also because of his turning down a 'job' I just don't get at all - apparently because they are at the same address and signed-on jointly (for whatever reason)

What are they supposed to live on - fresh air? The whole system stinks.

I sympathise with his position, however look at it from another point of view (devil's advocate almost)

What on earth is he doing (or not) to be applying for 6 jobs a day and not get any of them? Has he/you seriously thought about why this is the case and what he could do differently/better to improve his chances? Almost any type of job would pay him more than £57 a week, even minimum wage stuff.

If (not saying this is the case) he is turning jobs down then why should the state continue to fund (albeit a pitiful amount) him waiting for a perfect job to arrive?

I'm fully supportive of paying my tax into the/a welfare state (despite my own ridiculous position re my daughter and I agree the current system isn't great if you take personal stories) however within limits, that being it is a "safety net" for people to get back into any employment asap.

Edit: This isn't meant to be as harsh as it may sound. I know from personal experience how frustrating "the state" can be however also appreciate that the system that is in place (not JSA) works for the majority.

 

[Imurg]

But my son aside - absolute gob-smacking to hear many Brexiteers complaining about the extension to the deadline to register to vote. Quite staggering that they want to deny the vote to people who have a right to vote and want to vote - and missed it for whatever reason. Surely it is so much more important to get the greatest number of folk possible voting as that simply strengthens the mandate for the result - whatever it is.

Word is that there may be a legal challenge to extending the deadline.
And let's not forget that the system crashed a couple of hours before the deadline. People have had weeks to register. If they're leaving it to that late in the day you have to question whether they actually want to vote or are registering just because it's the "right" thing to do.
There's always exceptions - people move house and have to re-register but the majority of those who"missed" the original deadline - have they been living under a rock for the last 3 months? Have they packed their bags, headed for the woods, built a rudimentary toilet and become an off-grid spoon whittler...? One girl who was interviewed on the box the other morning said she'd been meaning to register for a week or two but just "hadn't got round to it" - well that strikes me that you're not really interested...

If there is a challenge it'll throw the cat amongst the pigeons for sure.

 

[bluewolf]

I sympathise with his position, however look at it from another point of view (devil's advocate almost)

What on earth is he doing (or not) to be applying for 6 jobs a day and not get any of them? Has he/you seriously thought about why this is the case and what he could do differently/better to improve his chances? Almost any type of job would pay him more than £57 a week, even minimum wage stuff.

If (not saying this is the case) he is turning jobs down then why should the state continue to fund (albeit a pitiful amount) him waiting for a perfect job to arrive?

I'm fully supportive of paying my tax into the/a welfare state (despite my own ridiculous position re my daughter and I agree the current system isn't great if you take personal stories) however within limits, that being it is a "safety net" for people to get back into any employment asap.

I'm a supporter of the Welfare State, but there is an old adage that I believe strongly in. "It's easier to find a job whilst already working".
@Swingsitlikehogan - I sympathise and understand your Son's position. However, working in any environment can only strengthen his position. It shows drive, commitment and a healthy work ethic.

 

[NWJocko]

I'm a supporter of the Welfare State, but there is an old adage that I believe strongly in. "It's easier to find a job whilst already working".
@Swingsitlikehogan - I sympathise and understand your Son's position. However, working in any environment can only strengthen his position. It shows drive, commitment and a healthy work ethic.

:thup:

Couldn't agree more

 

[Aztecs27]

But my son aside - absolute gob-smacking to hear many Brexiteers complaining about the extension to the deadline to register to vote. Quite staggering that they want to deny the vote to people who have a right to vote and want to vote - and missed it for whatever reason. Surely it is so much more important to get the greatest number of folk possible voting as that simply strengthens the mandate for the result - whatever it is.

Whilst I agree - What I find funny is the people on the news who tried to register half an hour before the deadline and complain about there not being enough time to register because of the problems with the website, and now they're not going to be able to vote...it's not like this referendum has crept up on us, why on earth did they not register at some point in the last 3 months?!

But I don't, in principle, have a problem with giving the most amount of people possible the chance to share their voice.

 

[Aztecs27]

Word is that there may be a legal challenge to extending the deadline.
And let's not forget that the system crashed a couple of hours before the deadline. People have had weeks to register. If they're leaving it to that late in the day you have to question whether they actually want to vote or are registering just because it's the "right" thing to do.
There's always exceptions - people move house and have to re-register but the majority of those who"missed" the original deadline - have they been living under a rock for the last 3 months? Have they packed their bags, headed for the woods, built a rudimentary toilet and become an off-grid spoon whittler...? One girl who was interviewed on the box the other morning said she'd been meaning to register for a week or two but just "hadn't got round to it" - well that strikes me that you're not really interested...

If there is a challenge it'll throw the cat amongst the pigeons for sure.

that'll teach me to skim read...

 

[SocketRocket]

Although your post is a mess I will try to answer the points. It may take a few posts as I am working now and have little time to do it.

.We have no control on EU migration..

There is no question about this as long as we are members of the EU we have no control of how many EU Citizens come to live here.

Regarding my points on Justice and EU Law:

Please read this link:
https://www.tutorhunt.com/resource/13870/

 

[Hobbit]

Regarding my points on Justice and EU Law:

Please read this link:
https://www.tutorhunt.com/resource/13870/

Oh I do thank you!!

You should be a politician. They mostly also believe that repeating a lie makes it true too.

The line about EU making laws has been proven to be nonsense, as has the line about £350 million a week, and just about every other promise the Brexiteers have made. Tory MP Sarah Wollaston has switched sides because she is so sick of the Leave side's lies.

And I seem to remember it was the evil witch (Thatcher) who destroyed manufacturing in this country, not the EU, so there aren't too many left to subsidise. Many of those who are here would not be here if the UK was not in the EU.

C'mon then Ethan, am I still a liar? I can't believe you could be wrong!! No, no apology necessary.

I guess Aztec will be taking back his "like" now that its been proven to be wrong...

 

[Foxholer]

Regarding my points on Justice and EU Law:

Please read this link:
https://www.tutorhunt.com/resource/13870/

The concept that EU law has supremacy over National law is clearly enshrined in the various treaties!

However, the concept of 'subsidiarity' means that the overwhelming majority of National laws are fine - it's only when they conflict with EU wide ones (such as Border Control) that there's a 'problem'!

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary/subsidiarity.html

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ftu/pdf/en/FTU_1.2.2.pdf

That's why I believe there should have been a referendum before ratifying the Maastricht Treaty - which enshrined both subsidiarity and (I believe) the supremacy of EU law.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm a supporter of the Welfare State, but there is an old adage that I believe strongly in. "It's easier to find a job whilst already working".
@Swingsitlikehogan - I sympathise and understand your Son's position. However, working in any environment can only strengthen his position. It shows drive, commitment and a healthy work ethic.

He had a job for a year - but decided to go it himself. Didn't work out. Now trying to find something, and he is not being that fussy. He has had a few interviews, but if you have to apply for say 6 jobs a day to maintain your JSA - and it doesn't matter what you apply for - then you will apply for a lot you won't have a chance of getting.

As it happens he and his g/friend are probably going to come back down south a live with us for a couple of weeks - maybe a couple of times during this summer - as it is quite easy to get temp work in Surrey - a lot easier than it is in Sheffield. Now there's a surprise. He is sick to the teeth of being on the dole and having so little money.

I do wonder though what they DWP think folks like my son and his girlfriend can actually live on when their JSA is stopped - they can apply for a hardship payment but what that is god only knows if £57 a week is viewed by IDS and Grayling as generous. Does he go robbing and his girlfriend go onto the street?

And out of the EU and workers rights are viewed as optional when at the moment likes of Tesco can provide the Job Center with almost limitless numbers of vacancies for unpaid work - great...

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

and given that one of the cornerstones of Leave argument is EU lack of accountability, democratic mandate etc etc. And now we hear Leave claiming conspiracy! foul! cheat! Court action! over extending the time for registration to allow the maximum number of people who want to vote the opportunity to so so. It would be laughable if it wasn't so worrying as it suggests a mindset of almost almost fanatical madness and paranoia

 

[MarkE]

Yes - if many who voted Tory gave a jot about the likes of my son when they read the guff the likes of the DM spouts about the scrouging unemployed

I sympathize with your son's predicament. That is no way to treat a young man looking to work. Unfortunately, that is the exact argument often put forward by those who welcome mass immigration. We need the migrants to do these jobs that the British are unwilling to do. Total rubbish of course, it's the influx of migrants that have enabled firms and the government to offer such miserly pay, forcing youngsters like your son to rely on parents.

 

[Imurg]

and given that one of the cornerstones of Leave argument is EU lack of accountability, democratic mandate etc etc. And now we hear Leave claiming conspiracy! foul! cheat! Court action! over extending the time for registration to allow the maximum number of people who want to vote the opportunity to so so. It would be laughable if it wasn't so worrying as it suggests a mindset of almost almost fanatical madness and paranoia

There was a deadline.
It was extremely well publicised
We had months to ensure we were eligible to vote...the referendum was announced in February
So what's going to happen if a bus load of people turn up at a polling station and are queueing to get in at 9.59pm..?
Keep them open another hour??
Not going to happen

Seriously, if someone's waiting until, literally, minutes before the deadline then they get what they deserve....
And if it means they don't get a vote then they've only got themselves to blame - with a few exceptions (but not many).
How many people will now wait until 5 minutes before the end of this deadline to register..? Some people will miss it..do we extend it again..?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

The Leavers seem quite annoyed that the voting registration date was extended by a day due to a computer glitch.

I would have thought that they would have been delighted to have the opportunity to gather all those additional votes.

 

[Fish]

Yup - that's the face of caring, compassionate conservatism.

My son started up his own business and we lent him money so that he could as he was getting no support and funding from anyone. But it didn't work out - and so he is back looking for employment. But he is in Sheffield - and work isn't so easy to come by in Sheffield - and that is where all his business contacts, network and friends are.

And he has been applying for 6 jobs every day for quite some time now - but no luck. And because he has now been on JSA for 'too long' he MUST accept whatever the job center puts his way. And surprise, surprise that paragon of employment virtue called Tesco are willing to provide him with unpaid employment - that he MUST accept. And as he has determination to get a job or get his own business up and running again he says sorry - it's really not suitable - and so they stop his £57 a week. Meanwhile my son struggles on trying to get his wee business up and running to get some money in, and has nothing - is penniless.

This is a disgusting way to treat folk like my son. For £57 a week. And who ends up helping him our - we;l of course we do - but the fact that we can is irrelevant, the state should not treat people in such a demeaning and humiliating way. The Tories repulse me. And so let no one be in any doubt what a Tory led Brexitted UK government will do to the poor and weak of our society.

And oh yes - his girlfriend shares a flat with him. She is alos on JSA actively seeking work - and because my son has said no to the Tesco slavery - she has had HER JSA stopped also. Absolutely sickening way to treat people.

Can he pull a pint, loads of bar staff being advertised in Sheffield, not all wanting experience, even Sheffield United want bar and waiting staff no experience for £7.20 p/hr and 5-8hr shifts, that's his JSA sorted in a single shift!

Has he registered with any temp agencies up there, I'd be amazed that they couldn't find anything for anyone, after all, it's in their interest to place people to earn off them!

I don't accept that there are not ANY jobs out there for someone, IF they are prepared to put themselves out and do something they wouldn't usually consider, and once employed and going for the next job to better that, I believe it's gets easier and companies look upon those people with more favour, I do.



You just want to blame everyone, especially the Tories, but he's chosen Sheffield as his base, because of friends & contacts, well I'm sorry but in this day & age they can be anywhere in the world, he needs a reality check and a kick up the backside not mollycoddling IMO, but then that's not the lefty way, is it!

#GroupHugAnyone

 

[Old Skier]

There was a deadline.
It was extremely well publicised
We had months to ensure we were eligible to vote...the referendum was announced in February
So what's going to happen if a bus load of people turn up at a polling station and are queueing to get in at 9.59pm..?
Keep them open another hour??
Not going to happen ?

Unfortunatly it is going to happen as it did in the general election because the boys in blue deemed it safer to let the drunken rabble vote than allow the polling station to close.

 

[Hacker Khan]

If I've got out of the UK then I have the right to travel. They do not need to see my passport.

I'm about to boost their pityful economy, they need me, I require their sun. Let me get in and start boosting.
When we vote out and Greece and Portugal and Italy will not be able to be supported by the EU, watch the prices fall in those countries as the pound soars !!!

My, you are a poster boy for the leave campaign aren't you....

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I see Blair and Major have been stirring it up a bit in NI.

A new UK boundary is bound to be a bit of a barrier both politically, financially and for security.

 

[MarkE]

More rubbish, just today's scare story. The Common travel area has been in place long before the EU existed. Free movement of Irish and UK citizens would continue as is.