EU Referendum

[Hobbit]

Gordon Brown was NEVER actually elected (PM) though was he!

You're missing the point, as usual!!

Labour weren't re-elected because of their performance. Shocked! The decision makers weren't re-elected... kinda runs contrary to your post that decision makers having to be elected, or kicked out.

And if you add in votes of no confidence and govts only lasting a few months/years... decision makers are booted out and no re-elected.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Perhaps worth noting that UKIP MEPs dominate the UK contribution to that body, so it's actually surprising that there's not a greater number of 'objections'!

Perhaps also worth noting that there are 24 UKIP MEPs, 19 Tory MEPs, 20 Labour MEPs and 10 from other parties. So for the majority of our MEPs to oppose a motion it would require UKIP getting backing from at least some members of the Tory or Labour MEPs to get to a majority of at least 37 to oppose. So it's not all just down to UKIP.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Well I'm voting to stay in

And the sooner the vote happens the better now - had enough of it all now , pathetic childish behaviour from both sides with zero facts given

 

[Deleted member 16999]

pathetic childish behaviour from both sides with zero facts given

Which is why I'm still on the fence, not been given a good enough argument to stay or leave.

Even when it seems someone is trying to be sensible the opposition slag them off.

Biggest issue for me is my sons future, if we leave, how long or how much heartache or irreversible damage could it cause.

Burying our heads in the sand is no good.

It'll never happen, but some guarantees we could hold both sides accountable to, if they get their way, would be nice,

 

[FairwayDodger]

Maybe you can point out where I have made a personal attack against you?

You deflected my posts by falsely claiming I was insulting you and now you've twisted it full circle. And still without responding to my actual point. Bravo!

 

[Hobbit]

David Cameron said Turkey will not become an EU member for decades. Yet Turkey were given 3 billion Euro's and all 28 EU member states, including the UK agree to granting visa free travel... It obviously doesn't need to be an EU member to get a handout and get visa free travel.

You couldn't make it up...

 

[FairwayDodger]

Delc, read post 2291, which has a table of EU mandates. It lists how many the UK MEP's opposed and how many were still passed.

There's two things that are blatantly obvious from that. One, it's appears as though we have very little influence in the EU. Secondly, why are we arguing to Stay when it appears we oppose 90% of the proposals?

Your normally much better than this, which made me look back to check I hadn't misread that graphic. We don't oppose 90% of proposals, far from it. Indeed turning it on its head slightly, we actually support 70% of them. Which, considering we are saddled with a large group of meps whose only purpose is to disrupt, seems like a pretty good number.

As I said before I bet the figures are similar for all countries across the parliament but nobody seems to have those numbers....

 

[Hacker Khan]

Not if he says no more. It's a bit like you jumping in with nothing to add but sarcasm, is that the way it works now.

PS. Does the whistling smiley attempt to belittle me? Not very clever, is it!

That's a very clever response there

By the way, ignore me and I will go away.

 

[Foxholer]

You're missing the point, as usual!!

Labour weren't re-elected because of their performance. Shocked! The decision makers weren't re-elected... kinda runs contrary to your post that decision makers having to be elected, or kicked out.

And if you add in votes of no confidence and govts only lasting a few months/years... decision makers are booted out and no re-elected.

And you have clearly missed mine!

Btw. While making unpopular laws/decisions etc might get a government kicked out, there's a lot more to it than that!

Do you really think it credible that my MP, with a majority of over 22k (so polled nearly 4 times as much as the next candidate), is ever going to be removed for a bad/unpopular decision?

 

[Fyldewhite]

Just watched this on the Marr show.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36454732

Another set of opinions from someone who knows a thing or two about the subject matter and despite me not being on the Tory side, someone I've always had a lot of respect for. Particularly like his reference to "trusting Gove, IDS and Boris with the NHS being akin to trusting a hungry Python with the pet hamster". Respect Sir John.

Just another informed opinion saying the Brexit case is deluded, based on misinformation, for it's supporters own ends and pandering to the worst traits in our great nation. I don't really know, none of us know the real extent to which this is true but I for one think this synopsis is nearer to the truth than much of what I've heard.

 

[SocketRocket]

And you have clearly missed mine!

Btw. While making unpopular laws/decisions etc might get a government kicked out, there's a lot more to it than that!

Do you really think it credible that my MP, with a majority of over 22k (so polled nearly 4 times as much as the next candidate), is ever going to be removed for a bad/unpopular decision?

His constituency party could replace him as the official candidate at the next election.

 

[SocketRocket]

Just watched this on the Marr show.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36454732

Another set of opinions from someone who knows a thing or two about the subject matter and despite me not being on the Tory side, someone I've always had a lot of respect for. Particularly like his reference to "trusting Gove, IDS and Boris with the NHS being akin to trusting a hungry Python with the pet hamster". Respect Sir John.

Just another informed opinion saying the Brexit case is deluded, based on misinformation, for it's supporters own ends and pandering to the worst traits in our great nation. I don't really know, none of us know the real extent to which this is true but I for one think this synopsis is nearer to the truth than much of what I've heard.

I watched it and he was spitting his normal feathers and venom against anything Eurosceptic. Just like Heseltine a yesterdays man who although passionate brings little worth to the debate.

 

[SocketRocket]

That's a very clever response there

By the way, ignore me and I will go away.

Grow up.

 

[Hobbit]

Your normally much better than this, which made me look back to check I hadn't misread that graphic. We don't oppose 90% of proposals, far from it. Indeed turning it on its head slightly, we actually support 70% of them. Which, considering we are saddled with a large group of meps whose only purpose is to disrupt, seems like a pretty good number.

As I said before I bet the figures are similar for all countries across the parliament but nobody seems to have those numbers....

You're right. It would help if I'd read the graphic properly. Equally, 30% isn't a figure I'm happy with 5-10-15%, fine. 20% I'm uncomfortable with, and 30% is a no from me.

Of the 30% we've opposed we've lost over 90% of those. And unsurprisingly most of those revolve around budgets. If you were one of the 10 net contributors you wouldn't want to take up more as the UK paid less. And as a receiver you definitely wouldn't want to see the money you receive dropping.

 

[Fyldewhite]

I watched it and he was spitting his normal feathers and venom against anything Eurosceptic. Just like Heseltine a yesterdays man who although passionate brings little worth to the debate.

Well, he brought a lot more to it than I've seen on here in 2000+ posts.

It's really just like the "Argument sketch" isn't it.......

The economy will dip......no it won't.
Trade will suffer......no it won't.
Jobs will suffer......no they won't.
It's a step into the unknown......no it isn't.

This is the whole substance of the Brexit case. Just deny the facts often enough and people will believe you. Meanwhile there's the (not very) thinly disguised xenophobia....the real undercurrent to all this. Always has been. At last the right wing of the Tory party have found a way to play the race card with some legitimacy (I say that because everyone recognises immigration is a big issue, and not just for the UK). I don't know which world you live in but in the one I inhabit the most fervent supporters of Brexit are the same people who think not showing Bernard Manning is political correctness gone mad. Backward thinking relics, "yesterdays men" you could say.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Im tempted to do my annual mass debate joke, but i've lost the will to live

and we have another 19 days or so to put up with this and then the aftermath

give me strength

Allow me then. There's a lot of guff in this thread written by some right mass debaters.

You're welcome....

 

[SocketRocket]

Well, he brought a lot more to it than I've seen on here in 2000+ posts.

It's really just like the "Argument sketch" isn't it.......

The economy will dip......no it won't.
Trade will suffer......no it won't.
Jobs will suffer......no they won't.
It's a step into the unknown......no it isn't.

This is the whole substance of the Brexit case. Just deny the facts often enough and people will believe you. Meanwhile there's the (not very) thinly disguised xenophobia....the real undercurrent to all this. Always has been. At last the right wing of the Tory party have found a way to play the race card with some legitimacy (I say that because everyone recognises immigration is a big issue, and not just for the UK). I don't know which world you live in but in the one I inhabit the most fervent supporters of Brexit are the same people who think not showing Bernard Manning is political correctness gone mad. Backward thinking relics, "yesterdays men" you could say.

A rather odd reaction but I expect little else from the scare campaign. Throw in the racist card and we are really scraping the barrel. Typical Remain balderdash.

 

[Foxholer]

A rather odd reaction but I expect little else from the scare campaign. Throw in the racist card and we are really scraping the barrel. Typical Remain balderdash.

That's been/being done by the Brexiters - with scares about immigration!

 

[SocketRocket]

That's been/being done by the Brexiters - with scares about immigration!

Immigration concerns are not racist.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Immigration concerns are not racist.

I think more accurately, immigration concerns are not necessarily racist but that is undoubtedly part of it for some.

I don't believe that to be your motivation, I hasten to add.