IanM
Journeyman Pro
- Joined
- May 18, 2009
- Messages
- 14,944
- Location
- Monmouthshire, UK via Guildford!
No, it's just the reaction to 40 years of political arrogance......
EU elections
- Thread starter Tashyboy
- Start date
Grant85
Head Pro
The problem is that MPs aren't working against the democratic vote. There is a majority (certainly in terms of Con + DUP with a few Labour) who are happy for an orderly Brexit to take place. MPs have not voted to revoke A50 or hold a referendum thus far. It's just that Brexit can come in 100 different ways and there is no majority for any reasonable / workable solution.
I do think the UK Gov have been extremely poor negotiators. I'm not sure of the circumstances of how the rules / timetable / format was all set out, but obviously the likes of May, Davis etc. agreed to it. Probably they have foolishly believed they had a stronger hand to play and thought the EU would be far more desperate to do whatever it took to do a free trade deal. But ultimately they have come up against a well oiled machine, backed by 27 countries who support their other member states, especially Ireland, with an extremely united front.
Fade and Die
Medal Winner
The whole electoral system has a lot to answer for imo. If those that voted UKIP had a voice in parliament their collective vote total deserved there would have been no need for Cameron, or anyone else, to promise a bloody referendum. I am quite sure, because of the 2 party system, many people who would have added their vote to the UKIP total felt it was a wasted vote and demurred to one of the others. If we had a form of PR those who voted UKIP would have been represented proportionately to the strength of feeling at the time. Who knows, they may even have been invited to help form a coalition. Cameron, wrongly imo, assumed most UKIP votes were from ex Tory voters and the rest, as they say, is history.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Totally agree, 1st past he post is no longer fit for purpose IMHO. Leads to a sense of not being listened to.
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drdel
Tour Rookie
I any form of voting there will be losers. Unfortunately in todays society with its distorted sense of entitlement 'losers' do not accept the outcome.
IMO we are one step away from anarchy; and that's definitely more worrying than 'political' parties squabbling.
IMO we are one step away from anarchy; and that's definitely more worrying than 'political' parties squabbling.
larmen
Head Pro
About 15 years ago there was a referendum about the system. I can’t really remember who was for and who was against it in since of campaigning.
People voted against it because it wasn’t well understood. Maybe it is time to give it another go.
People voted against it because it wasn’t well understood. Maybe it is time to give it another go.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Do you mean we should hold a 2nd referendum in case people have changed their minds or they didn't understand what they were voting for the first time?
It was 2011. It was a version of Alternative Vote, not proportional Representation. The Tories whipped up the media and it was lost. When Labour were in power just before then they also blocked it. Whichever party that is in power doesn't want it, making it incredibly hard to get it through. It only got in last time because Cameron had to agree it with the LibDems to get them into bed in a coalition.
The UK needs it but no party in power will push it.
drdel
Tour Rookie
I'm sure Sturgeon would be over the moon if proportional representation was ever adopted by the UK.
D
Deleted member 18645
Guest
I'd be happier if Sturgeon was sent to the Moon.
I'm sure Sturgeon would be over the moon if proportional representation was ever adopted by the UK.
Is PR a bad thing? It shouldn't be about which politicians like it, it should be about whats best for the UK.
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larmen
Head Pro
The reason the UK and the US are stuck in outdated systems is because you haven’t lost a war ;-)
Look at the fine and fairly modern constitution you guys made the Germans write.
The EU is even newer and has a better system as well.
We didn't make the Germans write a new constitution. The US, as part of the Marshall Plan for handing over $1444bn for rebuilding insisted on it.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
You can't go posting sensible stuff like that
larmen
Head Pro
Well, allies are allies, and they spoke the same language anyway. But Germany lost a war and ended up with a more modern constitution and electoral system.
drdel
Tour Rookie
They were given a bunch of money to modernise
They spent it wisely though, didn't fritter it away. Does the record of the UK suggest we would have done the same?
Mudball
Assistant Pro
Did the Brits loot/plunder/take i/get a gift of immense wealth from all around the colonies? Where has all that money gone? Was it part of the gold that Brown sold?
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
If it's orbiting this planet it's to close.
Back to the proportional representation idea. I was strongly for it. The idea of a percentage of votes equals a percentage of MPs. Yup I was for it. But the last three years, if anything has been proven. Parties cannot and will not compromise. How can you compromise with Theresa May. Corbyn, what is going on in his head. How can you compromise or negotiate with someone who changes his mind from day to day.
What narks me is that the people have spoken, they have given the HOP a mandate to leave, but they can ot make a decision ( insert own reasons why here. ). Yet there is a growing clamour to bounce it back to Joe public for a second referendum. If they cannot of will not catty out the will of the people, you are not good enough. Quit.
Me I go along with the anarchy bit, people are getting frustrated and angry.
Maybe you need to read up on a bit of history. The Marshall Plan was imposed on all of Europe. Each country was offered billions by the US, and each country had to sign up to a set of criteria. The U.K. actually argued for greater flexibility for Germany, fearing a repeat of too many restrictions on Germany like after World War 1.
Apology accepted.
