England

[Khamelion]

So does that not suggest that if they are good enough they will be playing in the Prem.

It should, but because the owners of clubs want success and to make more money, then unless the players from lower leagues are exceptional then they will not get a chance to play in the premiership.

Even if a play from a lower league team is good enough, when priced against a player of equal quality and talent from abroad the owner will opt for the cheaper better value for money player. This makes good business sense, but does not make for a better England team.

Which is my point, there will be players in lower leagues who are good enough but they will never play in the premiership because of the economics of the premiership and until the rules governing the English game change this will always be the case.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You hit the nail on the head, most players are in that league for a reason and I agree with you and others who have put forward that argument, but why limit ourselves to picking the same players when there might be a few players in lower leagues that can do a job for England. Use the scouting network and give others a chance to shine.



You're right it is becoming tiresome, but it's not going away and if anything it's getting worse. The dilution of the premiership with foreign players has just about reached saturation point and until something is done about it our national game will not be able to compete with the other major nations, England will just be also rans.

The English leagues had hardly any foreign players in the 70's and 80's and teams like Liverpool , Villa and Forest where winning European Cups

For 8 years England didn't even qualify for the WC and then made 2 quarters and a semi.

Using the too many foreign players masks the real reason why England won't win a tournament - not good enough and poor coaching from grass roots

In Spain there is 28,000 qualified UEFA coaches - in UK - 2000 ?!

The grass roots coaching where kids are coached wrong is the problem

In Spain and Germany kids don't even have goals on the pitch a lot of times

In England it's all about winning by any means !! That won't get England anywhere

 

[Rumpokid]

And as for Gerrard, supposed to be a holding midfielder and protect his defence, I can only remember him putting in 1 hard tackle to let the opposition know he's there in 2 games.

Should do the decent thing and announce his retirement from international football after the World Cup.

Agree with this, late on he should have been sent off for the Gerrard special 2 footer, not seen for a while...He had a chance to nail Suarez earlier on in first half, but he had second thoughts i thinks...

 

[HomerJSimpson]

So does that not suggest that if they are good enough they will be playing in the Prem.

The scouting network of clubs is massive - not many slip through the grasps of Prem clubs

Lower league players play in the lower league because that's how good they are - not international players

Fulham had numerous call ups the last time they were in the championship from across the globe and a lot of championship clubs are the same even now. Other countries obviously have no issues. What happens if there is a 20 goal a season midfielder come through into the Championship who happens to be English. Would you not play him because he isn't PL. Sadly we aren't that rich in talent where we can be that choosy anymore. If your good enough, then give them a chance. And you only find out how good they are by playing them

 

[Jensen]

Look we're not good enough plain and simple. Always have been, always will be. I get sick of the England team being billed up and then falling flat.
Technically we are very poor players. No one is happy on the ball, we look to off load the ball quickly like its a hot potatoe. No England player EVER looks comfortable on the ball when they're up against 2 opponents. A lot of players are totally 1 footed and lack basic skills.
It says it all when a country like Uruguay have the total population of Greater London and they produce better players.
Grass roots teaching is poor right through to FA school teaching. In the 80's we were told by the FA that teaching would improve and a lot of effort would be invested for the future of the game, but no change has been seen.
We are a nation of poor players who are ALL overpaid and sadly believe their own hype.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It should, but because the owners of clubs want success and to make more money, then unless the players from lower leagues are exceptional then they will not get a chance to play in the premiership.

Even if a play from a lower league team is good enough, when priced against a player of equal quality and talent from abroad the owner will opt for the cheaper better value for money player. This makes good business sense, but does not make for a better England team.

Which is my point, there will be players in lower leagues who are good enough but they will never play in the premiership because of the economics of the premiership and until the rules governing the English game change this will always be the case.

Sorry but that's wrong - if the player is good enough he will be picked and be bought by a top team

Yes English players are over priced but if they have the ability to play internationally then they will be bought

Lots of finger pointing and blame towards the Prem clubs

Again where was the England success before the prem ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Fulham had numerous call ups the last time they were in the championship from across the globe and a lot of championship clubs are the same even now. Other countries obviously have no issues. What happens if there is a 20 goal a season midfielder come through into the Championship who happens to be English. Would you not play him because he isn't PL. Sadly we aren't that rich in talent where we can be that choosy anymore. If your good enough, then give them a chance. And you only find out how good they are by playing them

Which countries are they then picking players from the lower leagues ? It won't be the top countries that's for sure

Scoring 20 goals in the championship isn't a signal for someone to be an international player for a country looking to succeed - if that same person can then score 20 goals against the top players in the country and in Europe then he is. The step up in standard from the Championship to Prem is big. - the step up to Europe is even bigger and then the step up for the top international teams is even bigger -

How many of the top countries have players in their team from anything other than the top league in a country ?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I disagree. I think I'm right in saying Sky said something like 32% of the PL were English born last season. Where do the youngsters go to get a game. They get loaned out. We need to be getting more youngsters getting their chances earlier in the PL or England looking at those already playing regularly in the championship and give them a run. Nothing wrong with call ups during friendly fixtures to get use to the set up and may be a sub appearance here and there to see if they can cut it. Surely that's what they are for

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I disagree. I think I'm right in saying Sky said something like 32% of the PL were English born last season. Where do the youngsters go to get a game. They get loaned out. We need to be getting more youngsters getting their chances earlier in the PL or England looking at those already playing regularly in the championship and give them a run. Nothing wrong with call ups during friendly fixtures to get use to the set up and may be a sub appearance here and there to see if they can cut it. Surely that's what they are for

What exactly are you disagreeing with ?

If the young players are good enough then they will get their chance

How old is Sterling ? He didn't need to be loaned out - because he is good enough to play prem and international football - same with Barkley , Shaw , Oxlade , Walcott in the past , Stones , Flanagan

If England look,towards the championship then they don't qualify for any tournament - simple as that.

 

[Beezerk]

Look we're not good enough plain and simple. Always have been, always will be. I get sick of the England team being billed up and then falling flat.
Technically we are very poor players. No one is happy on the ball, we look to off load the ball quickly like its a hot potatoe. No England player EVER looks comfortable on the ball when they're up against 2 opponents. A lot of players are totally 1 footed and lack basic skills.
It says it all when a country like Uruguay have the total population of Greater London and they produce better players.
Grass roots teaching is poor right through to FA school teaching. In the 80's we were told by the FA that teaching would improve and a lot of effort would be invested for the future of the game, but no change has been seen.
We are a nation of poor players who are ALL overpaid and sadly believe their own hype.

Here here.

 

[Khamelion]

I disagree. I think I'm right in saying Sky said something like 32% of the PL were English born last season. Where do the youngsters go to get a game. They get loaned out. We need to be getting more youngsters getting their chances earlier in the PL or England looking at those already playing regularly in the championship and give them a run. Nothing wrong with call ups during friendly fixtures to get use to the set up and may be a sub appearance here and there to see if they can cut it. Surely that's what they are for

Exactly the point I've been making.

If you are good enough to play for your country then no matter what league you are in, give the player a chance. As I and Homer have written surely that is what friendlies are for.

If you always do what you have done, you will always get what you have got.

And that sums up the England mentality in a nutshell.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Exactly the point I've been making.

If you are good enough to play for your country then no matter what league you are in, give the player a chance. As I and Homer have written surely that is what friendlies are for.

If you always do what you have done, you will always get what you have got.

And that sums up the England mentality in a nutshell.

And the change that needs to be made isn't downgrading the players you pick but actually looking deeper into the coaching of youngsters in the country.

Look at all the top countries and look where they pick their players from - the top leagues but their grass roots coaching is far superior.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Look we're not good enough plain and simple. Always have been, always will be. I get sick of the England team being billed up and then falling flat.
Technically we are very poor players. No one is happy on the ball, we look to off load the ball quickly like its a hot potatoe. No England player EVER looks comfortable on the ball when they're up against 2 opponents. A lot of players are totally 1 footed and lack basic skills.
It says it all when a country like Uruguay have the total population of Greater London and they produce better players.
Grass roots teaching is poor right through to FA school teaching. In the 80's we were told by the FA that teaching would improve and a lot of effort would be invested for the future of the game, but no change has been seen.
We are a nation of poor players who are ALL overpaid and sadly believe their own hype.

Well said

Best thing for England would be to speak to Brendan Rodgers and also look towards people like Nigel Clough - both people who are trying to develop the players the right way

 

[fundy]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=686209501415948

Funny spoof video for those on facebook

 

[Khamelion]

And the change that needs to be made isn't downgrading the players you pick but actually looking deeper into the coaching of youngsters in the country.

Look at all the top countries and look where they pick their players from - the top leagues but their grass roots coaching is far superior.

Yup indeed, I agree.

It's okay for us to pick fault with the player selection at present, but unless something changes at grass roots of the game nothing will change at the top.

There are lots of changes that need to be made within the structure of the English game, we do not need the cracks temporarily filled, we need the house demolished and rebuilt from the ground up.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=686209501415948

Funny spoof video for those on facebook

That's very good

 

[Marshy77]

Look we're not good enough plain and simple. Always have been, always will be. I get sick of the England team being billed up and then falling flat.
Technically we are very poor players. No one is happy on the ball, we look to off load the ball quickly like its a hot potatoe. No England player EVER looks comfortable on the ball when they're up against 2 opponents. A lot of players are totally 1 footed and lack basic skills.
It says it all when a country like Uruguay have the total population of Greater London and they produce better players.
Grass roots teaching is poor right through to FA school teaching. In the 80's we were told by the FA that teaching would improve and a lot of effort would be invested for the future of the game, but no change has been seen.
We are a nation of poor players who are ALL overpaid and sadly believe their own hype.

Whilst I agree with pretty much everything, they have produced 1 world class player and another decent striker, the rest of the team are very very similar to ours in that they are pretty average. The difference was Suarez, even half fit he destroyed the 2 chances he was gifted - we didn't take ours.

The FA needs a huge shake up from the roots to the top, better grass roots coaching, cheaper FA training camps and badges, smaller sided games, less pressure on kids to win and teach the fundimentals and keep teaching the kids the basics throughout there time playing and enjoying football.

I'd put less money in the game for apprentices/school boy/first pro contracts but that isn't going to happen.

 

[Conman85]

Well said

Best thing for England would be to speak to Brendan Rodgers

Why so he tells them to pick all Liverpool players and they can fail again like they did this world cup?

Face facts they are not good enough and believe there own hype. When it gets tough outwith Rooney know one wants to knuckle down and get dug in. Passing is almost scary to them and teams like the Italians who are far more street wise sit back and let you make your own mistakes. Same old England, but we did this well and we were so close............no you's lost as you simply weren't good enough and creating one chance that you were close with isn't good enough at this level.

Who's going to be your strike force in 2018? I cant think of much goal scoring talent coming through.

 

[richy]

Yes I am for real.

If a player is good enough to be in the England squad, he should be given as good a shout as any other player. Why does the selection pool have to be limited to the premiership?

This is hard work.

There are no players in the lower leagues better than the ones currently in the premiership

Do you watch any lower league games or any football at all for that matter?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Why so he tells them to pick all Liverpool players and they can fail again like they did this world cup?

Face facts they are not good enough and believe there own hype. When it gets tough outwith Rooney know one wants to knuckle down and get dug in. Passing is almost scary to them and teams like the Italians who are far more street wise sit back and let you make your own mistakes. Same old England, but we did this well and we were so close............no you's lost as you simply weren't good enough and creating one chance that you were close with isn't good enough at this level.

Who's going to be your strike force in 2018? I cant think of much goal scoring talent coming through.

Because his ethos is exactly what England needs right now - looking towards a better brand of football based around young players that can be coached and moulded better.

One of the brightest players for England was Sterling - Sterling has improved massively because of the way Rodgers works - he is also ruthless and doesn't believe in sentiment