England Golf Handicap Workshop

[HomerJSimpson]

Your CDH number is probably printed on your handicap certificate. You are 11.8 on the CDH

So in fact there was no difference to what HDID and the club have me on. Qulle surprise. Actually I knew we paid county fees (Berks Buck & Oxon) and that we'd be affiliated. Just because they don't break it down in an itemised bill doesn't make a difference

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Your handicap could be more up to date on the EG site (used to be EGU) than on HDID. Handicap certificates are supposed to be things of the past. When you attend an open or visit another course you give your CDH No and they can check your up to date handicap from their. By registering on the site you can print of your CDH No or get it from your club.

EG is universal whilst HDID only works with clubs on Club Systems software.

Been regular issues with Club Systems communicating with CDH - especially with 2000 version

Issues supposed to be iron out with the cloud based V systems which clubs are moving onto

Never trust HDID

 

[Old Skier]

Been regular issues with Club Systems communicating with CDH - especially with 2000 version

Issues supposed to be iron out with the cloud based V systems which clubs are moving onto

Never trust HDID

We found most communication issued were around security software and firewalls which untill the recent version we worked around by switching it off for a brief period while we uploaded scores.

Agree all the way on HDID and wish clubs would explain more about the modern systems to their members. We have had a case where a club was uplaoding to HDID but not to the CDH and it led to some very embarrasing episodes during a particular open comp.

I still would like to recommend that you or one of your handicap committee find time to attend a workshop if there is one in your county area.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I know when it is - it's at Gog Magog in April the day after a Bank Holiday ? Already said its a stupid date - ( they didn't realise ?! ) and they are looking at doing a webcast of an event and saving that.

Been in contact with them regular recently due to our SI changes and SSS change.

 

[Old Skier]

I know when it is - it's at Gog Magog in April the day after a Bank Holiday ? Already said its a stupid date - ( they didn't realise ?! ) and they are looking at doing a webcast of an event and saving that.

Been in contact with them regular recently due to our SI changes and SSS change.

They still seem to think all club officials dont work for a living.
Like the idea of a webcast although most of the more interesting points came out during the Q&A.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Seriously homer, you play golf all the time and you've got a handicap with a cdh number and you wasn't aware of the England golf website

Half of our members are not aware of the internet. They turn up, they play, they go home. It's the way they like it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They still seem to think all club officials dont work for a living.
Like the idea of a webcast although most of the more interesting points came out during the Q&A.

Yeah that's the bit that will be missed out - the Q&A but they did say you can email question in afterwards

 

[Old Skier]

Some info from the day

All courses in England to be reassessed for SSS purposes which will bring the ladies tees (red) in line with the method used for gents white and yellow. This will allow for any tee to be used for qualifiers. Clubs will need to ensure they have an up to date measured course cert.

It is proposed that all world wide authorities use the same system so in the future the use of the slope system can be used (proposed only)

Emphasis was made on the necessity of having Conditions of Comp for all types of comp.

Proposed CONGU changes for 2016 to be discussed at next CONGU meeting for implementation in 2016. Remember proposals only

4BBB allowance to change to 90%
Along with the ESR ESI (Increase) should be introduced which should help fast down slow up argument.
Annual Review dates to change to Oct/Nov/Dec so everything is in place by Jan
Accept Sup scores from a players away club
9 Hole Sup scores accepted - remember you have to apply to CONGU for your 9 hole course rating - forms avail from web site.
Max handicaps - Men 40 @ Ladies 54 - this is were it is important to have good conditions of entry for comps
Rules and Dates for preferred lies to change to allow for variable conditions around the country

Just a brief overview for those interested.

One of the more interesting facts was based around the amount of good live data they can now dig into because of the returned scores on CDH which gave some interesting data on the old old question "How many times should I play to my handicap"

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There are a number of issues many golf clubs will have with changes

Our season still goes right through to Dec - and then starts in March - changing the annual review date is a bit daft.

The increase of Max HC's is too extreme

Would clarify the "supplementary cards from away club" because when the card is entered at the away club the HC change gets published to CDH anyway which is then passed on to the home club - so I can't understand it

Rules and Dates for Preffered lies should be determined by the club.

 

[Old Skier]

There are a number of issues many golf clubs will have with changes

Our season still goes right through to Dec - and then starts in March - changing the annual review date is a bit daft.

The increase of Max HC's is too extreme
.

Your right, many golf clubs have issues with change which at times has been a major reason for the sometimes stuffy image that some have of golf members. Could possibly be the reason why a couple of our more so called prestiges clubs could be bothered to attend.

Not sure how a Dec review would effect you as I am not privie to how things are done at your club but I seem to remember review dates changing before.

The handicap increase was a suprise but in reality it's only bringing us in line with the rest of the world and I suppose it could be being tried to increase membership and participation.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We could just about do a dec review but we take our time doing it to ensure everyone is covered

Again december is a busy period for everyone

Have no issue with change and think the annual review should be done before jan ( gives people a month to get used to HC )

The jncrease of HC I don't have an issue with but 40 and 54 ?! That's a lot

 

[Old Skier]

The jncrease of HC I don't have an issue with but 40 and 54 ?! That's a lot

Yep an even though these are just proposals it's the reason we will now be looking at all our comps and sorting/reviewing conditions of entry before this years Oct AGM.

 

[Region3]

Some info from the day

All courses in England to be reassessed for SSS purposes which will bring the ladies tees (red) in line with the method used for gents white and yellow. This will allow for any tee to be used for qualifiers. Clubs will need to ensure they have an up to date measured course cert.

It is proposed that all world wide authorities use the same system so in the future the use of the slope system can be used (proposed only)

Is it true that the SSS assessment will change from "how a scratch player would score on a good day" to "how an 18hc would score on a good day", or have I made that up?

If so, will it still be called SSS?

I don't understand how you can assess the red tees in line with the yellow and white because in general, ladies hit the ball shorter distances than men. Surely they need a slightly amended version of the charts (or whatever they use).

Sorry for all the questions but stuff like this interests me.

 

[Old Skier]

Is it true that the SSS assessment will change from "how a scratch player would score on a good day" to "how an 18hc would score on a good day", or have I made that up?

If so, will it still be called SSS?

I don't understand how you can assess the red tees in line with the yellow and white because in general, ladies hit the ball shorter distances than men. Surely they need a slightly amended version of the charts (or whatever they use).

Sorry for all the questions but stuff like this interests me.

You have to forget about the red tees being Ladies, in the past the ladies course was measured using a different criteria. By using the same criteria then they can be used by anyone.

 

[Old Skier]

Is it true that the SSS assessment will change from "how a scratch player would score on a good day" to "how an 18hc would score on a good day", or have I made that up?

If so, will it still be called SSS?

Sounds about right but cannot give you hard detail. Am hoping to join the county team doing this when they complete our course this year so will have a better idea then.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You have to forget about the red tees being Ladies, in the past the ladies course was measured using a different criteria. By using the same criteria then they can be used by anyone.

Yep - it's taking away stigma that only ladies play of reds and men of whites and yellows

No longer Mens or ladies tees but just coloured tees that can be used by anyone

 

[Region3]

You have to forget about the red tees being Ladies, in the past the ladies course was measured using a different criteria. By using the same criteria then they can be used by anyone.

Yep - it's taking away stigma that only ladies play of reds and men of whites and yellows

No longer Mens or ladies tees but just coloured tees that can be used by anyone

I agree in principle, but maybe I'm under the mistaken impression about the way SSS is arrived at?

How do you arrive at a SSS that is fair to all golfers when in general (trying very hard not to stereotype) men and women hit the ball different distances, and therefore hazards won't affect both groups of players in the same way?

Edit:

Just had a thought. Will there be separate SSS for men and women? That would explain everything.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I agree in principle, but maybe I'm under the mistaken impression about the way SSS is arrived at?

How do you arrive at a SSS that is fair to all golfers when in general (trying very hard not to stereotype) men and women hit the ball different distances, and therefore hazards won't affect both groups of players in the same way?

Edit:

Just had a thought. Will there be separate SSS for men and women? That would explain everything.

Beleive your edit will be the way to go ?

 

[Old Skier]

I'm not sure that is relevant especially as we are now all under the same handicap system. How far you hit a ball has no relevance on what your handicap is, it's about how many shots it takes to get down the hole.

i am not a big hitter and have played the same course for a few years now and came down 4 shots in the last year. I still cannot hit the ball more than 180 yds on our course.

 

[Region3]

I'm not sure that is relevant especially as we are now all under the same handicap system. How far you hit a ball has no relevance on what your handicap is, it's about how many shots it takes to get down the hole.

Feel free to tell me to stop asking questions, but I'm enjoying the discussion....

I got my handicap on a 6,650yd course against a scratch score of 71. If I then play the same course but 1,000yds shorter against a scratch of 73 I ought to score a lot better.
If the scratch (or whatever it will be called) is decreased to allow for that, then the women who've played the scratch 73 course to get their handicap will be at a disadvantage.

I don't believe for a second that the EGU/CONGU/Whoever hasn't got a far better idea, but I'd love to know what it is because I like the idea of everybody being able to play the same course.