WHS - Handicap Allowances Question

[Old Skier]

Strange you have the issues with seniors, ours were the first to at least try to go fully electronic, ladies next and our big issue is the main mens section.

 

[ExRabbit]

So many words - but you still can't DQ someone for putting in a lower h/c (CH) on their card.



"Scoring in Handicap Competition. You are responsible for making sure that your handicap is shown on your scorecard. If you return a scorecard without the right handicap:

• If the handicap on your scorecard is too high and this affects the number of strokes you get, or no handicap is shown, you are disqualified from the handicap competition.
• If the handicap on your scorecard is too low, there is no penalty and your net score stands using the lower handicap."

You can punish them for making your job a bit harder - for instance by telling them they will be banned from competitions for a while if they continue to do so, but you have to accept all cards in a competition if they conform to the rules.

 

[Swango1980]

So many words - but you still can't DQ someone for putting in a lower h/c (CH) on their card.



"Scoring in Handicap Competition. You are responsible for making sure that your handicap is shown on your scorecard. If you return a scorecard without the right handicap:

• If the handicap on your scorecard is too high and this affects the number of strokes you get, or no handicap is shown, you are disqualified from the handicap competition.
• If the handicap on your scorecard is too low, there is no penalty and your net score stands using the lower handicap."

You can punish them for making your job a bit harder - for instance by telling them they will be banned from competitions for a while if they continue to do so, but you have to accept all cards in a competition if they conform to the rules.

View attachment 33825

The complicating factor was the scenario assumes no COURSE handicap was put on the card.

 

[DickInShorts]

Is the simple answer that they are treated as scratch if no handicap shown for the competition but their card is treated as normal for handicap.
same applies if (wrong) lower handicap shown - lower for competition;actual for handicap
If higher then DQ for competition and actual for handicap.

This presumably wasn’t possible under CONGU as clubs used same software for both, but now that clubs are only running competitions this seems logical solution

 

[Swango1980]

Is the simple answer that they are treated as scratch if no handicap shown for the competition but their card is treated as normal for handicap.
same applies if (wrong) lower handicap shown - lower for competition;actual for handicap
If higher then DQ for competition and actual for handicap.

This presumably wasn’t possible under CONGU as clubs used same software for both, but now that clubs are only running competitions this seems logical solution

The rules specifically say DQ if course handicap too high or NOT shown. If the NOT shown bit was not there, I could agree that would be logical.

 

[DickInShorts]

So if no handicap shown then DQ from comp but round counts under PH for handicap?

 

[Old Skier]

So if no handicap shown then DQ from comp but round counts under PH for handicap?

To many threads so I have lost track of this but DQ cards were previously used for HC prior to WHS. Apologies if I have gone off on the wrong track.

 

[Swango1980]

So if no handicap shown then DQ from comp but round counts under PH for handicap?

If I interpreted you correctly, then I think you are correct, ie:

No handicap shown on card, DQ from Competition
No handicap shown on card - still counts for handicapping purposes

 

[apj0524]

If I interpreted you correctly, then I think you are correct, ie:

No handicap shown on card, DQ from Competition
No handicap shown on card - still counts for handicapping purposes

This is my understanding from reading the WHS Rules of Handicapping

 

[Colin L]

See Appendix J, page 44 of the CONGU Guidance on the WHS.

 

[ExRabbit]

I'm out lol!

 

[bunkerblaster]

Played the delayed November monthly medal in December. Course not acceptable for an official handicapped round. Field was less than 30 players. Ref. Rules of Handicapping R&A Jan 2020, Appendix C page 95.
Questions:
1. Round treated as a club competition, but not acceptable for handicapping, irrespective of field size, should the 95% allowance be applied in such circs?
2. If the course was acceptable for handicapping and the field size was less than 30 should I enter results at 100% of allowance?

 

[Swango1980]

Played the delayed November monthly medal in December. Course not acceptable for an official handicapped round. Field was less than 30 players. Ref. Rules of Handicapping R&A Jan 2020, Appendix C page 95.
Questions:
1. Round treated as a club competition, but not acceptable for handicapping, irrespective of field size, should the 95% allowance be applied in such circs?
2. If the course was acceptable for handicapping and the field size was less than 30 should I enter results at 100% of allowance?

The playing handicap should be 95% regardless of field size. This has been adopted by CONGU nations.

 

[Old Skier]

Played the delayed November monthly medal in December. Course not acceptable for an official handicapped round. Field was less than 30 players. Ref. Rules of Handicapping R&A Jan 2020, Appendix C page 95.
Questions:
1. Round treated as a club competition, but not acceptable for handicapping, irrespective of field size, should the 95% allowance be applied in such circs?
2. If the course was acceptable for handicapping and the field size was less than 30 should I enter results at 100% of allowance?

Size of field in England not applicable. If it's a non Q you can do 100, we still do 95% to stop future confusion

 

[bunkerblaster]

Size of field in England not applicable. If it's a non Q you can do 100, we still do 95% to stop future confusion

Thanks for that. I did 100% allowance, with hindsight should have done 95% for the reasons you state.

Hope we get a 2021 Handicapping Manual. I also hope the R&A publish a 2021 Illustrated Rules of Golf to cover 2019 and 2020 changes. I thought it was a very useful guide.

 

[jim8flog]

Played the delayed November monthly medal in December. Course not acceptable for an official handicapped round. Field was less than 30 players. Ref. Rules of Handicapping R&A Jan 2020, Appendix C page 95.
Questions:
1. Round treated as a club competition, but not acceptable for handicapping, irrespective of field size, should the 95% allowance be applied in such circs?
2. If the course was acceptable for handicapping and the field size was less than 30 should I enter results at 100% of allowance?

AS per Old Skier

Guidance on the Rues of handicapping

GC/1 (Appendix C/1) Handicap Allowance for Small Fields
The recommendation to increase the allowance to 100% for field sizes of fewer than 30 players is not being adopted in GB&I. The allowance for single stroke play events is 95% regardless of the field size.

It is important to read the Guidance to the Rules of Handicapping as the rules have modified quite a lot. It can be down load on the CONGU website.

 

[Colin L]

Size of field in England not applicable. If it's a non Q you can do 100, we still do 95% to stop future confusion

The 95% handicap allowance has nothing to do with whether scores are being returned for handicapping or not. It is entirely to do with the competition results and plays no part in handicap index calculation. It's purpose is to achieve greater equity than using full course handicaps would do in stroke play as these would favour the higher handicapper. As such it should be used for greater fairness regardless of whether scores will be acceptable or not. (Besides, handicap allowances are mandatory in GB&I.)

 

[Old Skier]

The 95% handicap allowance has nothing to do with whether scores are being returned for handicapping or not. It is entirely to do with the competition results and plays no part in handicap index calculation. It's purpose is to achieve greater equity than using full course handicaps would do in stroke play as these would favour the higher handicapper. As such it should be used for greater fairness regardless of whether scores will be acceptable or not. (Besides, handicap allowances are mandatory in GB&I.)

I know, what had that to do with the question. It was a NQ so had no relevance to HI and was to do with HC to use in a NQ.

 

[Colin L]

I know, what had that to do with the question. It was a NQ so had no relevance to HI and was to do with HC to use in a NQ.

Sorry if I misread you.
When you said "If it's a non Q you can do 100" I took you to mean that the reason why you could use the full course handicap was because it was a non-qualifier, implying that you only have to use the 95% allowance if it were a qualifier. - which is not the case. Playing handicaps in a stroke play competition should be 95% of the course handicaps regardless of whether the scores are going to be acceptable or not. The reason for the handicap allowance - to achieve fairness - is as relevant to a non-qualifier as to a qualifier.

 

[rulie]

Colin, aren't handicap allowances irrelevant with respect to the score to be posted for handicap purposes, other than a situation where the allowance might impact a player's net double bogey score?