WHS - Handicap Allowances Question

Swango1980

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Yep I love these members, norm the same guys you don’t want anywhere near a medal card. As your well aware, whatever we put in place its not going to work for all, that’s why we love what we do :unsure::unsure::unsure:
True, it is just relying on technology scares me. Especially due to the very laid back nature of members at our club, where many don't take things very seriously. Cheap club, golf not a top priority or big investment to most in the grand scheme of their lives. That has fantastic benefits, no one takes themselves too seriously. But, I still suspect that it does lead to admin issues that may or may not be seen as much as top golf clubs.

Just out of lockdown today, and already I've had an e-mail from a member sending me a picture of another members card. He used the phrase "I am submitting the email as he struggles with technology". I appreciate that most of us are technology savy, given we are on forums for a start. But, I wonder how many golfers out there are dire using technology, and even I fail to appreciate just how bad they are. Most at least get used to using the PSI screen, but even some (usually older members or new members) still look at it as if it is the control system for sending a space rocket to the moon. And, I have resigned myself to the fact that a huge percentage will simply never register with howdidido or the WHS Portal. I know the Seniors section do not use it at all (except to publish results). They do all booking, score entry, and payment manually. They wouldn't even move to electronic payment during Covid, as they tell us the Seniors generally refuse to use technology and cannot do online banking.
 

ExRabbit

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So many words - but you still can't DQ someone for putting in a lower h/c (CH) on their card.



"Scoring in Handicap Competition. You are responsible for making sure that your handicap is shown on your scorecard. If you return a scorecard without the right handicap:


  • If the handicap on your scorecard is too high and this affects the number of strokes you get, or no handicap is shown, you are disqualified from the handicap competition.
  • If the handicap on your scorecard is too low, there is no penalty and your net score stands using the lower handicap."


You can punish them for making your job a bit harder - for instance by telling them they will be banned from competitions for a while if they continue to do so, but you have to accept all cards in a competition if they conform to the rules.

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Swango1980

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So many words - but you still can't DQ someone for putting in a lower h/c (CH) on their card.



"Scoring in Handicap Competition. You are responsible for making sure that your handicap is shown on your scorecard. If you return a scorecard without the right handicap:


  • If the handicap on your scorecard is too high and this affects the number of strokes you get, or no handicap is shown, you are disqualified from the handicap competition.
  • If the handicap on your scorecard is too low, there is no penalty and your net score stands using the lower handicap."


You can punish them for making your job a bit harder - for instance by telling them they will be banned from competitions for a while if they continue to do so, but you have to accept all cards in a competition if they conform to the rules.

View attachment 33825
The complicating factor was the scenario assumes no COURSE handicap was put on the card.
 
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Is the simple answer that they are treated as scratch if no handicap shown for the competition but their card is treated as normal for handicap.
same applies if (wrong) lower handicap shown - lower for competition;actual for handicap
If higher then DQ for competition and actual for handicap.

This presumably wasn’t possible under CONGU as clubs used same software for both, but now that clubs are only running competitions this seems logical solution
 

Swango1980

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Is the simple answer that they are treated as scratch if no handicap shown for the competition but their card is treated as normal for handicap.
same applies if (wrong) lower handicap shown - lower for competition;actual for handicap
If higher then DQ for competition and actual for handicap.

This presumably wasn’t possible under CONGU as clubs used same software for both, but now that clubs are only running competitions this seems logical solution
The rules specifically say DQ if course handicap too high or NOT shown. If the NOT shown bit was not there, I could agree that would be logical.
 

Swango1980

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So if no handicap shown then DQ from comp but round counts under PH for handicap?
If I interpreted you correctly, then I think you are correct, ie:

No handicap shown on card, DQ from Competition
No handicap shown on card - still counts for handicapping purposes
 
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Played the delayed November monthly medal in December. Course not acceptable for an official handicapped round. Field was less than 30 players. Ref. Rules of Handicapping R&A Jan 2020, Appendix C page 95.
Questions:
1. Round treated as a club competition, but not acceptable for handicapping, irrespective of field size, should the 95% allowance be applied in such circs?
2. If the course was acceptable for handicapping and the field size was less than 30 should I enter results at 100% of allowance?
 

Swango1980

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Played the delayed November monthly medal in December. Course not acceptable for an official handicapped round. Field was less than 30 players. Ref. Rules of Handicapping R&A Jan 2020, Appendix C page 95.
Questions:
1. Round treated as a club competition, but not acceptable for handicapping, irrespective of field size, should the 95% allowance be applied in such circs?
2. If the course was acceptable for handicapping and the field size was less than 30 should I enter results at 100% of allowance?
The playing handicap should be 95% regardless of field size. This has been adopted by CONGU nations.
 

Old Skier

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Played the delayed November monthly medal in December. Course not acceptable for an official handicapped round. Field was less than 30 players. Ref. Rules of Handicapping R&A Jan 2020, Appendix C page 95.
Questions:
1. Round treated as a club competition, but not acceptable for handicapping, irrespective of field size, should the 95% allowance be applied in such circs?
2. If the course was acceptable for handicapping and the field size was less than 30 should I enter results at 100% of allowance?
Size of field in England not applicable. If it's a non Q you can do 100, we still do 95% to stop future confusion
 
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Size of field in England not applicable. If it's a non Q you can do 100, we still do 95% to stop future confusion
Thanks for that. I did 100% allowance, with hindsight should have done 95% for the reasons you state.

Hope we get a 2021 Handicapping Manual. I also hope the R&A publish a 2021 Illustrated Rules of Golf to cover 2019 and 2020 changes. I thought it was a very useful guide.
 

jim8flog

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Played the delayed November monthly medal in December. Course not acceptable for an official handicapped round. Field was less than 30 players. Ref. Rules of Handicapping R&A Jan 2020, Appendix C page 95.
Questions:
1. Round treated as a club competition, but not acceptable for handicapping, irrespective of field size, should the 95% allowance be applied in such circs?
2. If the course was acceptable for handicapping and the field size was less than 30 should I enter results at 100% of allowance?
AS per Old Skier

Guidance on the Rues of handicapping

GC/1 (Appendix C/1) Handicap Allowance for Small Fields
The recommendation to increase the allowance to 100% for field sizes of fewer than 30 players is not being adopted in GB&I. The allowance for single stroke play events is 95% regardless of the field size.

It is important to read the Guidance to the Rules of Handicapping as the rules have modified quite a lot. It can be down load on the CONGU website.
 

Colin L

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Size of field in England not applicable. If it's a non Q you can do 100, we still do 95% to stop future confusion
The 95% handicap allowance has nothing to do with whether scores are being returned for handicapping or not. It is entirely to do with the competition results and plays no part in handicap index calculation. It's purpose is to achieve greater equity than using full course handicaps would do in stroke play as these would favour the higher handicapper. As such it should be used for greater fairness regardless of whether scores will be acceptable or not. (Besides, handicap allowances are mandatory in GB&I.)
 

Old Skier

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The 95% handicap allowance has nothing to do with whether scores are being returned for handicapping or not. It is entirely to do with the competition results and plays no part in handicap index calculation. It's purpose is to achieve greater equity than using full course handicaps would do in stroke play as these would favour the higher handicapper. As such it should be used for greater fairness regardless of whether scores will be acceptable or not. (Besides, handicap allowances are mandatory in GB&I.)
I know, what had that to do with the question. It was a NQ so had no relevance to HI and was to do with HC to use in a NQ.
 

Colin L

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I know, what had that to do with the question. It was a NQ so had no relevance to HI and was to do with HC to use in a NQ.
Sorry if I misread you.
When you said "If it's a non Q you can do 100" I took you to mean that the reason why you could use the full course handicap was because it was a non-qualifier, implying that you only have to use the 95% allowance if it were a qualifier. - which is not the case. Playing handicaps in a stroke play competition should be 95% of the course handicaps regardless of whether the scores are going to be acceptable or not. The reason for the handicap allowance - to achieve fairness - is as relevant to a non-qualifier as to a qualifier.
 
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