EGU Says Relax Dress Codes and Allow Mobile Phones

Some interesting views on this topic and here's my final take on it.
As a general rule of thumb, I always adapt my lifestyle choices to meet my own ends - I don't expect others to alter theirs to suit mine. Therefore, when I play golf at a course which demands a certain dress code or etiquette, I abide by their rules. I don't expect them to make allowances for me personally to suit my lifestyle choices, say for instance if I like to wear jeans and use my mobile ( which I do). If I owned the golf club in question and saw a genuine reason to allow members and visitors to wear jeans and use mobiles without restriction, then I would consider that option. From what I've seen at several courses in the UK and worldwide, I cannot see any genuine reason to follow that option. If want to wear jeans and use my mobile (which I am indeed at the time of writing) then I don't do it at a golf course or club. It's a pretty simple outlook. The whole concept of the "we may actually be doing you a favour by wearing jeans" side of the argument is pretty naive if you've ever tried to run a golf club as a business. I'm sure such golf clubs and business concepts exist (usually around hotels I guess) but I think it's fair to say that they are in the minority. If someone can actually pull off such a golfing form of utopia, then I'm all ears. In the meantime, I'll just leave my mobile in the car and wear trousers on the course. Especially on a lovely day like today.
 
Can anybody fill me in on the history of dress codes in golf clubhouses as their wide prevalence suggests that they have derived from a singular intention.

Were they simply derived from the types of clothes that golf has been historically played in or were they applied as a form of social exclusion (in other words 'clothes maketh the man' and, as such, if you dress appropriately then you must be of sufficient standing to enter our club. Jeans, of course, would indicate working class).

I am assuming that it cannot be simply a matter of looking smart because dress codes specify the type of clothes that should be worn but do not state that they must be clean, ironed, pressed etc and some of the crumpled chinos and hole ridden sweaters certainly are not smart.

I am just interested on what the historic, social or other basis is for the argument that people should dress a certain way to enter the establishment. Is that argument still valid today. Basically I am just trying to fill in a bit more detail as to the importance of an off course dress code beyond 'it has always been like that'.
 
There is a very simple question we are all forgetting here, that being (certainly in a Private Members Club) 'Whose club is it?'. It is not a decision for the Secretary or the Committee, the decision on whether to relax rules should be made by the membership, by means of a vote.
 
...and jeans? casual workers clothes?

Whatever the rationale being the golf club aversion to jeans it is a fact that my pair of jeans may be very different from yours. Yours might be nice and new and clean and actually smart - mine might be clean and messy - and also worn, tatty, ripped and faded - oh yes - and painted 'splattered'. No other form of trouser is as ubiquitous and worn for whatever purposes than jeans with condition subject to such variation,

It is a fact of jeans that we wear them for all occasions and activities. So rather than try and define a 'jeans standard' and then somehow police it - and knowing that from time to time someone will be told that their pair doesn't match up to some 'standard' - difficult if that is what they came in and don't have anything else to wear.

And so we just take the simple route and say jeans not allowed.

And I wonder - how many adults would not join a golf club because of an on-course ban on mobile phones - very, very few I suspect.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...and jeans? casual workers clothes?

Whatever the rationale being the golf club aversion to jeans it is a fact that my pair of jeans may be very different from yours. Yours might be nice and new and clean and actually smart - mine might be clean and messy - and also worn, tatty, ripped and faded - oh yes - and painted 'splattered'. No other form of trouser is as ubiquitous and worn for whatever purposes than jeans with condition subject to such variation,

It is a fact of jeans that we wear them for all occasions and activities. So rather than try and define a 'jeans standard' and then somehow police it - and knowing that from time to time someone will be told that their pair doesn't match up to some 'standard' - difficult if that is what they came in and don't have anything else to wear.

And so we just take the simple route and say jeans not allowed.

And I wonder - how many adults would not join a golf club because of an on-course ban on mobile phones - very, very few I suspect.
Click to expand...

Totally agree on it's own it would make very little difference, as would wearing jeans in the clubhouse, as would being able to wear non white short socks with shorts, as would being able to untuck your short on a hot day, as would wearing trainers in the clubhouse after 7pm etc etc.

But done together over time they will change the 'perception' of the game and bring down the perceived barriers to entry. So people can either just shoot down every initiative as on its own it will make little difference (which is true) or they can be done as part of a wider strategy to change things.

And as for the rest of the argument about jeans then instead of banning jeans, how about clubs just say 'wear something appropriate, smart but comfortable'? Of course that is more open to interpretation, but in reality how many people will turn up in paint splattered jeans? How often will someone get offended because someone is wearing smart jeans? if so is that the problem with the person wearing smart jeans or the person who is offended? Do people really feel the need to police trousers in an age where clubs are struggling and membership is down? In reality how often will someone need to be turfed out? Could the club then potentially turf out someone wearing stained old chinos that look awful yet let the person in 'smart' jeans stay in?;)
 
Jeans and mobiles are allowed in the clubhouse at my club. No jeans on the course.

Clubhouse is still full of golfers shooting the breeze before or after their rounds. Some of them in jeans, some not, some of them checking the mobile phones, some not. The club carries on as normal and the Earth continues to turn...
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
...and jeans? casual workers clothes?

Whatever the rationale being the golf club aversion to jeans it is a fact that my pair of jeans may be very different from yours. Yours might be nice and new and clean and actually smart - mine might be clean and messy - and also worn, tatty, ripped and faded - oh yes - and painted 'splattered'. No other form of trouser is as ubiquitous and worn for whatever purposes than jeans with condition subject to such variation,

It is a fact of jeans that we wear them for all occasions and activities. So rather than try and define a 'jeans standard' and then somehow police it - and knowing that from time to time someone will be told that their pair doesn't match up to some 'standard' - difficult if that is what they came in and don't have anything else to wear.

And so we just take the simple route and say jeans not allowed.

And I wonder - how many adults would not join a golf club because of an on-course ban on mobile phones - very, very few I suspect.
Click to expand...

If I was joining a new club and it was a decision between one that allowed mobiles and one that banned them I would go with the one that allowed them because it would be more my type of club, i.e. progressive and I would feel I would enjoy it more playing there.
 
woody69 said:
If I was joining a new club and it was a decision between one that allowed mobiles and one that banned them I would go with the one that allowed them because it would be more my type of club, i.e. progressive and I would feel I would enjoy it more playing there.
Click to expand...

Nothing particularly progressive about enabling players to freely use mobile phones on the course - regressive in fact as it moves from general consideration of other players to only really caring about what suits the individual. And down that route we go at our peril. And as far as judging a club's suitability for your membership based upon their mobile phone policy - really? That would swing it for you?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Nothing particularly progressive about enabling players to freely use mobile phones on the course - regressive in fact as it moves from general consideration of other players to only really caring about what suits the individual. And down that route we go at our peril. And as far as judging a club's suitability for your membership based upon their mobile phone policy - really? That would swing it for you?
Click to expand...

It obviously wouldn't be the only factor, but it would be tick in the column for that club for sure. And I'm not sure how you view the use of a mobile to be a regressive step considering they are banned at a few places. A club that allows mobiles on the course and / or in the club house versus one that has signs up saying they are banned are far more progressive in my eyes and it isn't just for the individual as it will benefit the collective as there are far more people who own a mobile versus ones that don't.
 
woody69 said:
It obviously wouldn't be the only factor, but it would be tick in the column for that club for sure. And I'm not sure how you view the use of a mobile to be a regressive step considering they are banned at a few places. A club that allows mobiles on the course and / or in the club house versus one that has signs up saying they are banned are far more progressive in my eyes and it isn't just for the individual as it will benefit the collective as there are far more people who own a mobile versus ones that don't.
Click to expand...

Introducing something that enables or encourages activity by one player that could detract from the enjoyment of another is regressive.
 
Hacker Khan said:
And as for the rest of the argument about jeans then instead of banning jeans, how about clubs just say 'wear something appropriate, smart but comfortable'? Of course that is more open to interpretation, but in reality how many people will turn up in paint splattered jeans? How often will someone get offended because someone is wearing smart jeans? if so is that the problem with the person wearing smart jeans or the person who is offended? Do people really feel the need to police trousers in an age where clubs are struggling and membership is down? In reality how often will someone need to be turfed out? Could the club then potentially turf out someone wearing stained old chinos that look awful yet let the person in 'smart' jeans stay in?;)
Click to expand...

Probably sums up my view perfectly. Being of reasonably smart appearance is much more important than the material garments are made from. Of course the meaning of "reasonably smart" (or whatever) will be different to different people but there will always be a consensus which will change over time. 50 years ago it lincluded Jacket/Tie etc, nowadays it is polo shirt and trousers, in a few more years it will have changed again.

As for phones. The rules were all introduced when mobiles were seen as newfangled devices that were used by very few people, mostly to the annoyance of others. Nowadays, we all have them. All that's needed is consideration for others. Put on silent, don't yell into them (or if you have to go outside), don't allow either the phone or your call to interrupt the flow of the game, or distract anyone if on the course. Appreciate some will not have this consideration but that issue extends a lot further than phones IMHO. Current draconian policies are a sledgehammer to crack a nut to the detriment of the average member.
 
nemicu said:
Some interesting views on this topic and here's my final take on it.
As a general rule of thumb, I always adapt my lifestyle choices to meet my own ends - I don't expect others to alter theirs to suit mine. Therefore, when I play golf at a course which demands a certain dress code or etiquette, I abide by their rules. I don't expect them to make allowances for me personally to suit my lifestyle choices, say for instance if I like to wear jeans and use my mobile ( which I do). If I owned the golf club in question and saw a genuine reason to allow members and visitors to wear jeans and use mobiles without restriction, then I would consider that option. From what I've seen at several courses in the UK and worldwide, I cannot see any genuine reason to follow that option. If want to wear jeans and use my mobile (which I am indeed at the time of writing) then I don't do it at a golf course or club. It's a pretty simple outlook. The whole concept of the "we may actually be doing you a favour by wearing jeans" side of the argument is pretty naive if you've ever tried to run a golf club as a business. I'm sure such golf clubs and business concepts exist (usually around hotels I guess) but I think it's fair to say that they are in the minority. If someone can actually pull off such a golfing form of utopia, then I'm all ears. In the meantime, I'll just leave my mobile in the car and wear trousers on the course. Especially on a lovely day like today.
Click to expand...

far too sensible and straightforward :thup:
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Introducing something that enables or encourages activity by one player that could detract from the enjoyment of another is regressive.
Click to expand...

I think it's a no brainer that mobile phones should be allowed on the course. Their usage subject to the same sort of social considerations that would be applied in other situations.

One of the comments often made against participation in golf is that it "takes too long" and, indeed, being completely out of contact for four hours can be a lot. I'd have no more objection to a playing partner receiving a call and dealing with it quickly and discretely while we were playing than I would a friend doing likewise when we were out at a restaurant, for example. (Obviously, I'd hope they had it on silent in their pocket rather than it ringing on my backswing.)

Like anything, some people will no doubt abuse the privilege but I don't think we should always pander to the lowest common denominator.
 
Fyldewhite said:
Probably sums up my view perfectly. Being of reasonably smart appearance is much more important than the material garments are made from. Of course the meaning of "reasonably smart" (or whatever) will be different to different people but there will always be a consensus which will change over time. 50 years ago it lincluded Jacket/Tie etc, nowadays it is polo shirt and trousers, in a few more years it will have changed again.

As for phones. The rules were all introduced when mobiles were seen as newfangled devices that were used by very few people, mostly to the annoyance of others. Nowadays, we all have them. All that's needed is consideration for others. Put on silent, don't yell into them (or if you have to go outside), don't allow either the phone or your call to interrupt the flow of the game, or distract anyone if on the course. Appreciate some will not have this consideration but that issue extends a lot further than phones IMHO. Current draconian policies are a sledgehammer to crack a nut to the detriment of the average member.
Click to expand...

Eminently sensible :thup:
 
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