Does your club require a minimum number of Acceptable Scores before winning prizes in a Competition.

NearHull

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,013
Visit site
We are coming under increasing pressure from our members who are getting concerned that competitions , both team games and individual games are being won by large margins. Whether this is , or is not, the result of WHS is irrelevant to my question. i am not trying to fix, criticise or change WHS. It is what it is.

We already have in our Open ToC a condition that entrants must have submitted 3 scores in the previous 12 months. For our own Club Competitions, we are considering all members must have submitted 6 Acceptable Scores in the previous 12 months. They could be either General Play or Competition Scores as our members do not submit many GP cards. We have at least three comps each week.

(Yorkshire Golf Union County Members Meets ToC includes that each entrants has submitted 6 Acceptable Scores for Handicap of 18 holes in the previous 12 months and of which 3 must in a competition.)

i am very interested in how many clubs are running competitions with specific conditions around winners ( or 2nd, 3rd places) having to have entered a set number of Acceptable Scores in a set period prior to that particular competition.
 

Imurg

The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
36,752
Location
Aylesbury Bucks
Visit site
3 scores in the last 12 months, not necessarily comps.
Not enough in my view...5 should be easily achievable given the new system but we don't suffer from the ridiculously high scores that some clubs get.
I guess it means we put enough cards in, as a club, to ensure accurate handicaps
 

Backsticks

Assistant Pro
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,676
Visit site
We have six competition cards in the previous 12 months required for monthly medals and boards comps. All other regular weekly stablefords have no restriction.
 

RRidges

Active member
Joined
May 26, 2022
Messages
485
Visit site
We are coming under increasing pressure from our members who are getting concerned that competitions , both team games and individual games are being won by large margins. Whether this is , or is not, the result of WHS is irrelevant to my question. i am not trying to fix, criticise or change WHS. It is what it is.

We already have in our Open ToC a condition that entrants must have submitted 3 scores in the previous 12 months. For our own Club Competitions, we are considering all members must have submitted 6 Acceptable Scores in the previous 12 months. They could be either General Play or Competition Scores as our members do not submit many GP cards. We have at least three comps each week.

(Yorkshire Golf Union County Members Meets ToC includes that each entrants has submitted 6 Acceptable Scores for Handicap of 18 holes in the previous 12 months and of which 3 must in a competition.)

i am very interested in how many clubs are running competitions with specific conditions around winners ( or 2nd, 3rd places) having to have entered a set number of Acceptable Scores in a set period prior to that particular competition.
Are you suggesting that some players might be 'playing' the system? Or simply that the system doesn't truly reflect truly 'occasional' golfers?
In either case, rules such as those proposed are not going to stop 'bandits'. Having an active Handicap Secretary/Committee is the best way to stop 'banditry' imo.
And perhaps analysing exactly, or at least in more depth, why those comps are being won by large margins would help. Basically, find out if the system is being played, or whether some golfers are simply whingeing - as many are wont to do!
FWIW, 6 in the last 12 months - perhaps medical exemptions aside - should be easy to achieve. For end of season 'majors', that should be reduced to within the current season. Even so, it's 'fiddleable', so that active H/Sec is important to maintain integrity of the system.
 

NearHull

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,013
Visit site
Are you suggesting that some players might be 'playing' the system? Or simply that the system doesn't truly reflect truly 'occasional' golfers?
In either case, rules such as those proposed are not going to stop 'bandits'. Having an active Handicap Secretary/Committee is the best way to stop 'banditry' imo.
And perhaps analysing exactly, or at least in more depth, why those comps are being won by large margins would help. Basically, find out if the system is being played, or whether some golfers are simply whingeing - as many are wont to do!
FWIW, 6 in the last 12 months - perhaps medical exemptions aside - should be easy to achieve. For end of season 'majors', that should be reduced to within the current season. Even so, it's 'fiddleable', so that active H/Sec is important to maintain integrity of the system.
I chair our Handicap and Competitions Committee and I think we are quite active In this area. Beside the mandatory annual handicap review we carry out two further reviews each year and amongst our ‘data collections’ we keep specific records of team game winners and their Handicap Submissions records at the time of winning. It is this team game area that is really concerning us.

This year there are 28 teams in this record. Obviously their scores are not acceptable for Handicap. If we applied a 6 previous acceptable score rule, then 7 of these teams would have been DQ’d. One member, with only 14 scores in his record, has only submitted one score in 2022 and he has won two 4BB comps! There are other similar, but perhaps not as extreme, wins.

On reflection, it is the team competitions that are our current concern and the 6 previous rule would go a long way to equalising the field. But we feel that the rule should be a blanket rule for all competitions and not merely applied to team games.

But ……how common is this type of rule?
 

Tashyboy

Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
18,435
Visit site
I chair our Handicap and Competitions Committee and I think we are quite active In this area. Beside the mandatory annual handicap review we carry out two further reviews each year and amongst our ‘data collections’ we keep specific records of team game winners and their Handicap Submissions records at the time of winning. It is this team game area that is really concerning us.

This year there are 28 teams in this record. Obviously their scores are not acceptable for Handicap. If we applied a 6 previous acceptable score rule, then 7 of these teams would have been DQ’d. One member, with only 14 scores in his record, has only submitted one score in 2022 and he has won two 4BB comps! There are other similar, but perhaps not as extreme, wins.

On reflection, it is the team competitions that are our current concern and the 6 previous rule would go a long way to equalising the field. But we feel that the rule should be a blanket rule for all competitions and not merely applied to team games.

But ……how common is this type of rule?

I cannot imagine one golfer who plays regular golf would be upset by this ruling as it is done on the belief that it is fair To all golfers.
 

Orikoru

Tour Winner
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
25,165
Location
Watford
Visit site
Yeah at our place they recently (this year) brought in a rule that you need at least 8 cards in the last year, and a max of 4 can be general play (so must have entered 4 comps basically).
 

Springveldt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
1,523
Visit site
I’m not sure if we have a rule or not but 6 general round cards in a year should be achievable for all members really (health and injury withstanding). If you can’t get 6 rounds in within a year then you are getting very poor value for money with your membership.

I’d be suspicious of people who aren’t entering handicap scores yet are playing in team comps. Maybe they have genuine reasons but if they can find time for team games then surely they can find time for 6 rounds in a year?
 
Last edited:

Newnsy

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
77
Visit site
competitions are open to anyone with a handicap at our club, but knockouts which are the more prestigious trophy at our club, you must have submitted 10 cards in the last 12 months to enter. This was because the same person was in the final of three knockouts his excuse was he didnt have time to put cards in as he was in too many knockouts :)
 

mister v

Newbie
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
202
Visit site
I think we have to have had 3 qualifiers in the last 12 months
I Just had a look at our last 4 comps which include 2 board comps and the june and july montly medal. all of the winners had played in 3 qualifiers within the last couple of months and hadnt won anything in the previous 6 months , so thats nice to see regular players having their moment in the winners circle.
However there are rumblings about some of the club knock outs . my mate got hammered 7&6 (i know it happens) by someone who's last qualifier was sept last year and only played 3 in total during 2021 , so im not sure how that works
 
Last edited:

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
14,687
Location
Yeovil
Visit site
We will be bringing it in for 2023 for our Opens

5 in the preceding 12 month period prior to the comp.

Our Seniors Championship has had a rule for years that you must have played in 3 of the Seniors regular fortnightly comps in the current year to win the trophy.
 

chellie

Tour Winner
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
4,763
Visit site
I’m not sure if we have a rule or not but 6 general round cards in a year should be achievable for all members really (heath and injury withstanding). If you can’t get 6 rounds in within a year then you are getting very poor value for money with your membership.

I’d be suspicious of people who aren’t entering handicap scores yet are playing in team comps. Maybe they have genuine reasons but if they can find time for team games then surely they can find time for 6 rounds in a year?

Surely that is also down to who is selecting the teams. Though saying that we have come across lots over the years who only played the minimum 3 cards to maintain a C handicap but played far, far better. Certain clubs were renowned for it.
 

Oddsocks

Ryder Cup Winner
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
16,613
Location
Croydon, Surrey
Visit site
It’s doesn’t but it should be at least 1 per 1/4(season).

A recent stableford was won by 48/49 points off 26hc, the player had put two cards in last year and one the year prior with only one counting. The remaining top 4 from 5 were single figures all shooting between 38-40.

How anyone can enter a comp and win with only one valid card is mind blowing.
 

D-S

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
2,976
Location
Bristol
Visit site
How does the need to put in a certain amount of cards make the Handicap of someone who is manipulating the system suddenly accurate?
If I wanted to win more by having an index higher than my ability, I would be entering more cards not less.
This is a bit like the 'High handicappers win everything' debate - when people look at the numbers and percentages of categories most handicap levels win their fair share. I would also guess that those who enter very few competitions lose more competitions than regular competition players. The serial offenders will only welcome more not less cards.
 

clubchamp98

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
15,944
Location
Liverpool
Visit site
Three isn’t enough imo.
WHS is based on your best 8 of 20 rounds.
So I would say 8 should be the minimum.
If you can’t put 8 cards in over a year your wasting your money being a member of a golf club.

It’s three at ours ,and we are still getting some very silly scores but not as many now.
 
Top