Do you want a higher or lower handicap?

[Radbourne2010]

Lots of talk generally amongst golfers of those in their clubs who are bandits, and those who protect their artificially high handicap

Yet I’ve also heard stories of those who NR in comps when they’re playing awfully and will definitely be out of their buffer zone

Do you think most golfers want as low a handicap as possible, or don’t actively care / try to lower it, as they know it’ll give them a better chance in club and open comps?

Lowest I’ve ever been. TBH, it’s a true reflection of where my game is right now. Ask me again this time next year after another 20+ Medals, might be a different story.

 

[jim8flog]

Last comp before lockdown2, I was playing rubbish, lost a ball and decided to NR. This has been recorded as 121 in the WHS database! No idea how that was worked out! But if you want to inflate your handicap this is a quick way to do it.

Now hopefully this will never count as one of my best 8 scores, but it has replaced an 80 in my record of last 20 scores. Looks funny on my chart of scores, probably a good incentive not to NR again!

If you had recorded scores on at least 10 holes it will count.

After that every hole NRd will be recorded as a nett double bogey i.e the lowest score at which you would have got 0 points in a stableford comp.

 

[pendodave]

Mate said to me “ you need to know your worst qualification score”
If you beat it your cap will change,
If you don’t nothing happens unless one of the Q scores is number 20 you might go up.

The latter is more important than the former for me - my lowest score (by a few shots) was about 15 rounds ago, so I'll almost certainly be getting a rise sometime in the spring unless lightening is bottled again.
Have to say, i think It'll be fine once we're underway. It'll certainly help people like my dad, in his 80s, who through no fault of their own can't get 0.1s back fast enough.

 

[sunshine]

If you had recorded scores on at least 10 holes it will count.

After that every hole NRd will be recorded as a nett double bogey i.e the lowest score at which you would have got 0 points in a stableford comp.

Thanks. I recorded an NR on all 18 holes so 121 is equivalent to a nett double bogey on every hole for me. Yikes!

Even though it isn't one of my top 8 counting rounds, it has increased my HI by 0.5 because it has wiped out an 80. Good demonstration of the volatility under WHS.

 

[jim8flog]

Thanks. I recorded an NR on all 18 holes so 121 is equivalent to a nett double bogey on every hole for me. Yikes!

Even though it isn't one of my top 8 counting rounds, it has increased my HI by 0.5 because it has wiped out an 80. Good demonstration of the volatility under WHS.

I am interested in how the card was put in.

Did you enter the card yourself via a computer/ app or did someone else put it in for you.

If you put in for yourself lesson to be learnt. Record all scores where you have played out a hole. This is not like the old system where you just go up 0.1.

When we go back to medal rounds we will be trying to get the message through to all players that NRing an entire round should not be done only NR holes that were not completed and NS for for holes not started.

 

[Orikoru]

Thanks. I recorded an NR on all 18 holes so 121 is equivalent to a nett double bogey on every hole for me. Yikes!

Even though it isn't one of my top 8 counting rounds, it has increased my HI by 0.5 because it has wiped out an 80. Good demonstration of the volatility under WHS.

Sorry but that's just broken and stupid. They'll have to sort that out in the system surely?

 

[Imurg]

Would have been the same effect if he'd put in a score of 81.
The 80 was dropping off no matter what score gets posted.
121 isn't likely to ever be one of the best 8 so becomes irrelevant.

 

[sunshine]

I am interested in how the card was put in.

Did you enter the card yourself via a computer/ app or did someone else put it in for you.

If you put in for yourself lesson to be learnt. Record all scores where you have played out a hole. This is not like the old system where you just go up 0.1.

When we go back to medal rounds we will be trying to get the message through to all players that NRing an entire round should not be done only NR holes that were not completed and NS for for holes not started.

Entered it myself on the app. Just selected NR on every hole.

It's very rare for me to NR, but I think it's pretty common at my club for people to stop scoring when they are having a bad day. Normally see a dozen NR's on a Saturday comp with 100+ entrants. Under the CONGU system of course it made no difference what you scored once you realised you weren't going to make buffer. It will take a long time for people to adjust to the fact that the outcome is now more complicated than +0.1

 

[williamalex1]

Can't you just play off a lower handicap if you want ?

 

[sunshine]

Would have been the same effect if he'd put in a score of 81.
The 80 was dropping off no matter what score gets posted.
121 isn't likely to ever be one of the best 8 so becomes irrelevant.

Almost but not quite.

The 80 dropped off no matter what. A score of 81 would be a counting score and (replacing 80) would only make a minor difference to HI.

The 80 has been replaced with my 8th best score which is now an 88, which has increased my HI by 0.6 - big jump, but could have been bigger if I had lots of NR's and lots of big scores.

 

[harpo_72]

Entered it myself on the app. Just selected NR on every hole.

It's very rare for me to NR, but I think it's pretty common at my club for people to stop scoring when they are having a bad day. Normally see a dozen NR's on a Saturday comp with 100+ entrants. Under the CONGU system of course it made no difference what you scored once you realised you weren't going to make buffer. It will take a long time for people to adjust to the fact that the outcome is now more complicated than +0.1

Wouldn’t that behaviour be detrimental to the css calculation... if we were still under CONGU?

 

[Fish]

Your handicap doesn’t lie, it’s what you score with a card in your hand.

It doesn’t matter what you do in roll ups or bounce rounds, it doesn’t matter how many pars you’ve made in a medal, your handicap is a true reflection of your consistency, or lack of!

Everyone should want a lower or more competitive handicap, but if it’s higher than they think it should be, then its because they’re not consistent, simples.

I’m dangerous apparently in Matchplay, because everyone says I shouldn’t play off what I do, but I’m not consistent enough in medal play to get it down where I’d like it, and where my playing partners say it should be!

Maybe WHS will make a difference ?

 

[Grant85]

I want a handicap that reflects my ability to compete in competitions.

I personally don't see the point / benefit of submitting bounce game scores under the new system. Especially if it's not compulsory or enforced. That means your handicap might reflect how you play in a bounce game, rather than in competitions.

If it was compulsory that all bounce games must be recorded, then at least everyone is in the same boat. But as it is I think we will move from a system where most people had fair handicaps that reflected their ability to compete in competitions... to a system with much less consistency.
Some people still just putting in their 3 scores
others just recording competition scores
a number will be recording every game they play
and some picking the days / courses they deem most favourable.
no doubt some will have a few strategic 'bad' days to get an extra shot before a competition or a match - much easier in the new system.

Ok, so it's not a huge issue if someone works the system to get a 'vanity' handicap... except that if this becomes the norm for a lot of people, there will be peer pressure on others to do the same and ensure they have an index on the same basis. In my view bounce game scores will be lower due to no pressure of competition as well as often easier course set ups on non-competition days. The new system might capture some of that, but only if there's enough info collated on that day.

I think the new system is much more complete, but this aspect of it is the worst part and in my view an unnecessary change .

 

[Garush34]

I want a handicap that reflects my ability to compete in competitions.

I personally don't see the point / benefit of submitting bounce game scores under the new system. Especially if it's not compulsory or enforced. That means your handicap might reflect how you play in a bounce game, rather than in competitions.

If it was compulsory that all bounce games must be recorded, then at least everyone is in the same boat. But as it is I think we will move from a system where most people had fair handicaps that reflected their ability to compete in competitions... to a system with much less consistency.
Some people still just putting in their 3 scores
others just recording competition scores
a number will be recording every game they play
and some picking the days / courses they deem most favourable.
no doubt some will have a few strategic 'bad' days to get an extra shot before a competition or a match - much easier in the new system.

Ok, so it's not a huge issue if someone works the system to get a 'vanity' handicap... except that if this becomes the norm for a lot of people, there will be peer pressure on others to do the same and ensure they have an index on the same basis. In my view bounce game scores will be lower due to no pressure of competition as well as often easier course set ups on non-competition days. The new system might capture some of that, but only if there's enough info collated on that day.

I think the new system is much more complete, but this aspect of it is the worst part and in my view an unnecessary change .

I disagree, I think allowing extra score when players want is a good thing. It allows people to play to have an effect on their Handicap all year round.

I think it's still competitive, because you are competing against your previous scores, if you know that a 76 is coming off you'll feel the pressure to try and beat that otherwise your Handicap is going up.

Allowing for players to put in scores all year means that people will get more out of their membership, not just having to wait for comps to start to improve your Handicap. Next year for me will be difficult to get comps in with baby number two due end of march, but if I can get some scores in before then while I'm playing through the winter then that would be great for me.

 

[sunshine]

Your handicap doesn’t lie, it’s what you score with a card in your hand.

It doesn’t matter what you do in roll ups or bounce rounds, it doesn’t matter how many pars you’ve made in a medal, your handicap is a true reflection of your consistency, or lack of!

Everyone should want a lower or more competitive handicap, but if it’s higher than they think it should be, then its because they’re not consistent, simples.

I’m dangerous apparently in Matchplay, because everyone says I shouldn’t play off what I do, but I’m not consistent enough in medal play to get it down where I’d like it, and where my playing partners say it should be!

Maybe WHS will make a difference ?

But I believe the idea is that, going forward, you do count your scores in roll ups, and even bounce games. Why shouldn't a roll up score count? You are recording your scores.

Bounce games it's a bit more subjective, you may be messing around with a mate, dropping another ball down here and there, so for me I'm unlikely to count these towards handicap.

 

[Depreston]

As low as my ability can take me

You never have a conversation when meeting a stranger who plays golf that goes like this

“Ahhh youre an avid golfer? Me too!! How many club comps you won?“

You always ask what is your handicap

 

[Orikoru]

But I believe the idea is that, going forward, you do count your scores in roll ups, and even bounce games. Why shouldn't a roll up score count? You are recording your scores.

Bounce games it's a bit more subjective, you may be messing around with a mate, dropping another ball down here and there, so for me I'm unlikely to count these towards handicap.

I won't be submitting any non-comp rounds for handicap. When I'm having a knockabout round I don't want to be thinking about how my handicap will be affected. As you say, you want the freedom to drop a ball down somewhere, or give yourself a 6 foot gimme when you've got the hump and so on. I don't think a handicap should be based on rounds like that. It should be a reflection of how you play in competition conditions. In my opinion anyway. If you want to submit a card for your knock and then you play that knock properly, then fine I guess. I just won't be doing it.

 

[Imurg]

I won't be submitting any non-comp rounds for handicap. When I'm having a knockabout round I don't want to be thinking about how my handicap will be affected. As you say, you want the freedom to drop a ball down somewhere, or give yourself a 6 foot gimme when you've got the hump and so on. I don't think a handicap should be based on rounds like that. It should be a reflection of how you play in competition conditions. In my opinion anyway. If you want to submit a card for your knock and then you play that knock properly, then fine I guess. I just won't be doing it.

Depends on how much access you have to competitions
At Whipsnade, as 5 day members, we had a maximum of 6 a year. Allowing for not being able to play all of them for one reason or another we got to play 2 or 3.
Supplementary cards were vital..

 

[Orikoru]

Depends on how much access you have to competitions
At Whipsnade, as 5 day members, we had a maximum of 6 a year. Allowing for not being able to play all of them for one reason or another we got to play 2 or 3.
Supplementary cards were vital..

As I say it's fine as an option as long as you do it right. It does also seem to be open to a bit of abuse. But as people have said, you could manipulate the old system if you wanted to as well I guess. Unscrupulous people will always find a way.

I'm hopefully going to be a member at two clubs next year, so actually the new system is quite useful. On one of the courses I currently get 17 shots and the other course 15. Both off the whites.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As soon as you pre register for a round it’s no longer a “bounce” game or swindle etc etc - it’s a handicap Qualifer in exact the same way as a competition where you handicap is potentially affected and people’s attitude and the way they play will change because of that.

I can’t see many submitting pre registered rounds because it adds that extra stress that some don’t want to add in the game and just want to enjoy a round with mates